New England Revolution Stadium | 173 Alford Street | Boston-Everett

[JumboBuc]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I think the tough sell is that this is essentially a minor league team in a city with very popular teams across the 4 major team sports in this country. Most people recognize that MLS is not the best league in soccer (football). I have no idea where it DOES stack up, but this website for example ranks it 5th. https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Best-Soccer-Leagues

Back in 2014, Bleacher report ranked it 10th. https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ing-the-worlds-top-10-football-leagues#slide2

Regardless, it's a tough sell against teams that are inarguably in the best leagues worldwide for their respective sports. It's also why MLS will never, ever join the other 4 regarding overall prestige in the US. The best players in their primes tend to play somewhere else.

The popularity of MLS vis-a-vis other sports leagues (soccer or otherwise) should have no relevance in the Revs' stadium decision. (And more generally, this is an internet fight really not worth getting into.)

If the Revs want to maximize their own popularity and following and optimize the experience of going to a game, they have to be in urban Greater Boston. The fact that they will likely never be as popular as -- say -- the Sox or Pats or even Real Madrid has no bearing on this.

No mid-sized company thinks "well, we'll never have the market cap of Apple or Amazon, so there's no point in trying to expand." Northeastern doesn't pack up and leave because it'll never be Harvard or MIT. That's not how the world works. Any entity should try to be the best it can be, regardless of how great others may be.

 

[DZH22]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

No mid-sized company thinks "well, we'll never have the market cap of Apple or Amazon, so there's no point in trying to expand." Northeastern doesn't pack up and leave because it'll never be Harvard or MIT. That's not how the world works.

It all depends on the product. In this case, it's a minor league sports team going up against 4 major league sports teams and a whole host of college sports. It's going to be a tough sell to build a whole new stadium dedicated to a minor league team in a major league town. At the end of the day, anywhere in or around Boston that they decide to build the stadium would be better served by building something else (ie housing).

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

It all depends on the product. In this case, it's a minor league sports team going up against 4 major league sports teams and a whole host of college sports. It's going to be a tough sell to build a whole new stadium dedicated to a minor league team in a major league town. At the end of the day, anywhere in or around Boston that they decide to build the stadium would be better served by building something else (ie housing).

Stop right there. The Revs are in MLS, Major League Soccer. Boston has 5 pro sports teams, not 4.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

A team that gets 20k people for each game is in no way a minor league team.

Any way if Kraft wants a Patriots place like development next to a new MLS stadium I think Wonderland could work. Just a stadium and somewhere at one of the colleges would work. Alumni Stadium or Harvard Stadium which are already built. Anywhere else they could build the stands, and have it be used for both College Sports and MLS games.

The problem with a Revs stadium is I don't think it'll be good for much other then Soccer. TD Garden or Gillette will be better for any concerts.

 

[North Shore]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

A team that gets 20k people for each game is in no way a minor league team.

Any way if Kraft wants a Patriots place like development next to a new MLS stadium I think Wonderland could work. Just a stadium and somewhere at one of the colleges would work. Alumni Stadium or Harvard Stadium which are already built. Anywhere else they could build the stands, and have it be used for both College Sports and MLS games.

The problem with a Revs stadium is I don't think it'll be good for much other then Soccer. TD Garden or Gillette will be better for any concerts.

Should a Revs stadium get built, there's no way it sits idle without concerts or other sporting events. There's sure to be international friendlies played there, especially given the ease of flying in from Europe into Logan. Plus with 20-25k seats, it can capture a number of concerts away from the Garden or Agannis.

 

[HalcyonEra]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

A team that gets 20k people for each game is in no way a minor league team.

Any way if Kraft wants a Patriots place like development next to a new MLS stadium I think Wonderland could work. Just a stadium and somewhere at one of the colleges would work. Alumni Stadium or Harvard Stadium which are already built. Anywhere else they could build the stands, and have it be used for both College Sports and MLS games.

The problem with a Revs stadium is I don't think it'll be good for much other then Soccer. TD Garden or Gillette will be better for any concerts.

There is zero chance that the fine people of Chestnut Hill would ever allow it. As it is, for football games they bus people in from office park car lots 10 miles away. Even if everyone took the green line, the opposition from the neighborhood would be fierce. As for Harvard, I doubt they would ever allow their football edifice to be retrofitted. They like it the way it, as do all of the Ivy schools. There is quite a bit of space behind it, including the school's soccer field and practice fields so maybe they would be open to that, but some of it is city owned parks too I think.

 

[DZH22]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Stop right there. The Revs are in MLS, Major League Soccer. Boston has 5 pro sports teams, not 4.

Is MLS the best league in its respective sport? The answer is a resounding NO.

Is the team that wins the MLS in a given season considered the best team in its respective sport? Once again a resounding NO.

Does MLS attract the best players in the world? NO.

In fact, the MLS "All Star Game" actually pits all of the best players of the league against a random (non all star) team, typically from Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_All-Star_Game

A team composed of all of the best players in the league, 23 teams combined, is about on par with a good European squad. In fact, they have lost 3 straight now, to Juventus, Real Madrid, and Arsenal. Let that sink in. The entire league does not field the talent found on 1 team in Europe.

The league can call itself whatever it wants, but it doesn't have the best players, doesn't have the best teams, and in that respect doesn't get a spot at the table with the NFL, MLB, NBA, or NHL. It's between the 5th and 10th best league in the world for its respective sport, meaning it's a minor league. If anything, maybe they should change MLS to mean Minor League Soccer because it will never rise to the level of the leagues in Europe.

 

[Ruairi]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Is MLS the best league in its respective sport? The answer is a resounding NO.

Is the team that wins the MLS in a given season considered the best team in its respective sport? Once again a resounding NO.

Does MLS attract the best players in the world? NO.

In fact, the MLS "All Star Game" actually pits all of the best players of the league against a random (non all star) team, typically from Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_All-Star_Game

A team composed of all of the best players in the league, 23 teams combined, is about on par with a good European squad. In fact, they have lost 3 straight now, to Juventus, Real Madrid, and Arsenal. Let that sink in. The entire league does not field the talent found on 1 team in Europe.

The league can call itself whatever it wants, but it doesn't have the best players, doesn't have the best teams, and in that respect doesn't get a spot at the table with the NFL, MLB, NBA, or NHL. It's between the 5th and 10th best league in the world for its respective sport, meaning it's a minor league. If anything, maybe they should change MLS to mean Minor League Soccer because it will never rise to the level of the leagues in Europe.

We're talking about a facility to watch live sport here. MLS is the biggest soccer league in the US and Canada (a market of 360 odd million). It's the most watched soccer league in this area. It draws higher average attendances than NHL. It's growing all the time with teams like Atlanta United averaging 50K per game. On a world stage, no, it's not a major player (yet) but in the domestic market, it's definitely a major league. The Krafts are sitting on a golden ticket and they know it. The Revs would more than hold their own in the city center.

 

[DZH22]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

It draws higher average attendances than NHL.

Less teams, less games, way bigger stadium capacity.

Total attendance last year...
MLS 8,270,187
NHL 21,451,041

Revenue
MLS $851 Million
NHL $3.7 BILLION

The NHL had over 4.33 times the revenue and over 2.5 time the total attendance.

Total MLS tv ratings account for just 6% of soccer tv viewing. 6%!!!!! Unlike the other 4 leagues in town, MLS is NOT THE MAJOR LEAGUE FOR ITS SPORT.
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2018/04/19/mls-tv-ratings-concern-given-account-just-6-soccer-tv-viewing/

 

[Smartiro]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I am not sure why is this an argument - there's currently 23 teams in MLS (soon to be 26) and only 7 (soon to be 6) are playing in non-soccer specific stadiums.
It's a matter of Revs staying (or some would say becoming) relevant in their league.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Plus with 20-25k seats, it can capture a number of concerts away from the Garden or Agannis.

Probably not as many as you think. Don't forget, we are really only talking about a 5 month season. No one wants to see a concert outside when it is 45 degrees at night. Many performers will still prefer playing Great Woods (sorry not calling it the Comcast/Xfinity whatever) for several reasons in the warmer months. Then, like it or not for concerts, Fenway is not going anywhere. TD Garden also just put a lot of money into their concourses and will always have plenty of summer concerts. Finally, Agganis is not a comparable venue since it is about 1/3 the capacity as the others.

 

[mass88]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

We're talking about a facility to watch live sport here. MLS is the biggest soccer league in the US and Canada (a market of 360 odd million). It's the most watched soccer league in this area. It draws higher average attendances than NHL. It's growing all the time with teams like Atlanta United averaging 50K per game. On a world stage, no, it's not a major player (yet) but in the domestic market, it's definitely a major league. The Krafts are sitting on a golden ticket and they know it. The Revs would more than hold their own in the city center.

The MLS is not even the most popular soccer league in its own country.

Look at the cost of attending say a Bruins game vs. an MLS game. Bruins games are significantly more expensive.

Anyways, the biggest factor in the Revs gaining more popularity will be to provide a winning team and a consistently competitive team. Building a soccer specific stadium will boost atmosphere and probably get their average attendance up to 21-22,000 a game. But it's not going to suddenly cause the team's popularity to surge to very high levels.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Arguing over the virtue of the MLS is a stupid and pointless endeavor. It also has nothing to do with the Revs stadium plans.

The more I think about it, the more appealing the site of the old Mystic Generating Station looks, bounded by Alford St and the Mystic River in Everett. It's a big site close to the urban core that's relatively transit accessible but will never become housing.

 

[odurandina]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Brookline's nefarious anti-urban status aside; does BU or BC at least possess the capacity to house major league soccer as a small stadium that would function as BU's athletic field or BC's football stadium?

 

[chrisbrat]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

unless BU brings back football, they have no need for anything bigger than Nickerson. No way the neighbors of BC would allow MLS at alumni stadium. they kick up enough fuss over Eagles football games as it is.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Less teams, less games, way bigger stadium capacity.

Total attendance last year...
MLS 8,270,187
NHL 21,451,041

Revenue
MLS $851 Million
NHL $3.7 BILLION

The NHL had over 4.33 times the revenue and over 2.5 time the total attendance.

Total MLS tv ratings account for just 6% of soccer tv viewing. 6%!!!!! Unlike the other 4 leagues in town, MLS is NOT THE MAJOR LEAGUE FOR ITS SPORT.
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2018/04/19/mls-tv-ratings-concern-given-account-just-6-soccer-tv-viewing/

I'm absolutely with you on this, and had a similar argument once with a Sounders fan who claimed soccer was more popular than baseball. He was wrong, but was blinded by faith. You will never be able to convince a diehard soccer fan that MLS is not remotely in the same category as NHL/MLB/NBA/NFL.

[eta]
If the Krafts want to build a soccer specific stadium in Boston, I'm all for it, but this side argument about relative importance of the sport is irrelevant.

 

[Justin7]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Is MLS the best league in its respective sport? The answer is a resounding NO.

MLS is NOT THE MAJOR LEAGUE FOR ITS SPORT.

What is your point exactly?

By your definition anything outside of the UK is a minor league. Fine, you can put it that way, but it doesn't stop other leagues around the world from being wildly successful, so what bearing does it actually have on this discussion?

"La Liga isn't even the best league in Western Europe! Trash!"

Also, I'm not sure what gives you the confidence to say that MLS will never catch the NHL. Where exactly is the evidence? Current total attendance? Really?

 

[Ruairi]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

I'm absolutely with you on this, and had a similar argument once with a Sounders fan who claimed soccer was more popular than baseball. He was wrong, but was blinded by faith. You will never be able to convince a diehard soccer fan that MLS is not remotely in the same category as NHL/MLB/NBA/NFL.

I think at the moment it's foolish to suggest that MLS is as popular as the NHL but it's equally foolish to suggest that it will never be.

 

[Coyote137]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

This argument is entirely irrelevant. Building a stadium in the urban core would boost attendance and interest, and suggestions to the contrary are definitely coming from people who are really, really white (I say this as a white guy).

 

[DZH22]

Re: Site in Hub top choice for a soccer stadium

Also, I'm not sure what gives you the confidence to say that MLS will never catch the NHL. Where exactly is the evidence? Current total attendance? Really?

The NHL has all of the best hockey players in the world competing in 1 league. MLS has none of the best soccer players in the world competing in 1 league. Typically, fans of a sport want to see the best their sport has to offer. It's a pretty tough sell to say "we can watch the best baseball players in the world, or the best basketball players in the world, or the best football players in the world, or the best hockey players in the world, or.... probably not even the 5th best group of soccer players in the world!"

I am a die-hard Boston sports fan, and if the Revolution won the next 10 titles I wouldn't even give it a mention when discussing Boston sports championships. Most people from the city probably wouldn't even know it happened. They're a blip on the radar around here. The level of competition relative to its sport is about the same level as the Lowell Spinners for baseball.

Boston has 4 major sports teams, and that's it. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.