New Red and Orange Line Cars

[EdMc]

Article about what the New York Metropolitan Transit Authority is looking for in its new subway cars.

RailwayAge July 18th

Next-generation New York MTA R-211 cars previewed

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php...-cars-and-subway-station-plan.html?channel=62

Increased capacity, reduced dwell time.

Using features that are becoming an international standard:

• R-211 Open Car End Design: The MTA anticipates that out of 1,025 new cars, up to 750 will be R-211s, configured as 150 five-unit trainsets. They will feature an Open Car End design without gangways. The Open Car End design replaces the door and open gangway between cars with a diaphragm that creates longer, open spaces, allowing for greater passenger flow movement and increasing capacity. These cars have become an international standard, MTA said. In London 31% of the Underground fleet will be Open Car End by the end of the year. In Paris, RATP’s figure will climb to 37%; and in Toronto, TTC’s will reach 56%, with addition of Bombardier Rocket cars.

• Wider Doors: The door width of the new cars will be expanded from the current MTA standard of 50 inches to 58 inches. Wider subway doors can reduce delays by allowing customers to enter and exit more quickly, and have also become an international standard. According to a computer simulation of passenger flow conducted on behalf of the MTA, in crowded scenarios wider doors can reduce a train’s station dwell time by 32%.

From The Atlantic CityLab, July 18th

 

[Jahvon09]

Article about what the New York Metropolitan Transit Authority is looking for in its new subway cars.

RailwayAge July 18th

Next-generation New York MTA R-211 cars previewed

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php...-cars-and-subway-station-plan.html?channel=62

Increased capacity, reduced dwell time.

Using features that are becoming an international standard:

• R-211 Open Car End Design: The MTA anticipates that out of 1,025 new cars, up to 750 will be R-211s, configured as 150 five-unit trainsets. They will feature an Open Car End design without gangways. The Open Car End design replaces the door and open gangway between cars with a diaphragm that creates longer, open spaces, allowing for greater passenger flow movement and increasing capacity. These cars have become an international standard, MTA said. In London 31% of the Underground fleet will be Open Car End by the end of the year. In Paris, RATP’s figure will climb to 37%; and in Toronto, TTC’s will reach 56%, with addition of Bombardier Rocket cars.

• Wider Doors: The door width of the new cars will be expanded from the current MTA standard of 50 inches to 58 inches. Wider subway doors can reduce delays by allowing customers to enter and exit more quickly, and have also become an international standard. According to a computer simulation of passenger flow conducted on behalf of the MTA, in crowded scenarios wider doors can reduce a train’s station dwell time by 32%.

They looks almost like the new railcars in use for Washington, DC's WMATA Metro system!

Looks like more & more cities are jumping onboard for the procurement of new subway trains!

 

[bakgwailo]

They looks almost like the new railcars in use for Washington, DC's WMATA Metro system!

Looks like more & more cities are jumping onboard for the procurement of new subway trains!

Well, at least we are getting wider doors (not sure if there was an exact spec on that or not), but, kind of sad that the ship has sailed on the articulated part. Would have been a perfect time - I guess it will have to wait until the next order in 30-50 years

 

[sm89]

7 years to deliver

 

[winstonoboogie]

Well, at least we are getting wider doors (not sure if there was an exact spec on that or not), )

The door width for the Red/Orange cars will be 64 inches (32 inches per door leaf). That width allows a wheelchair to board even if one of the door leafs fails to open.

 

[Arlington]

The door width for the Red/Orange cars will be 64 inches (32 inches per door leaf). That width allows a wheelchair to board even if one of the door leafs fails to open.

Sweet!

 

[bakgwailo]

The door width for the Red/Orange cars will be 64 inches (32 inches per door leaf). That width allows a wheelchair to board even if one of the door leafs fails to open.

Thanks, I thought they had published the actual dimension, but my google skills failed me there. Good to know we are at least going even wider than the 58 inches mentioned here

 

[Jahvon09]

7 years to deliver

I think that he's talking about the articulated trains.

We have articulated buses & trolley's, but not articulated railcars. :mrgreen:

 

[bakgwailo]

I think that he's talking about the articulated trains.

We have articulated buses & trolley's, but not articulated railcars. :mrgreen:

That I was - just saying that it will probably take another 30-50 years for the next order after this one, and maybe then we can get articulated subway cars

 

[Jahvon09]

That I was - just saying that it will probably take another 30-50 years for the next order after this one, and maybe then we can get articulated subway cars

True, but if the MBTA does not see a need for them, then it won't get them.

Like Amtrak's Acela train, you can't take just one car out of the set to fix something in it that isn't working. The whole trainset must be taken out of service just to fix something in one of the cars.

Articulated trains are designed that way, even though the Acela is not really an articulated train. It would indeed be nice to have them, but I think that they would cost a fortune to have.

 

[bakgwailo]

True, but if the MBTA does not see a need for them, then it won't get them.

Like Amtrak's Acela train, you can't take just one car out of the set to fix something in it that isn't working. The whole trainset must be taken out of service just to fix something in one of the cars.

Articulated trains are designed that way, even though the Acela is not really an articulated train. It would indeed be nice to have them, but I think that they would cost a fortune to have.

Aren't the cars in married pairs anyways? Maybe just articulating the two car sets would help? That might be the best of all worlds - still allow the pairs to be changed out, but also increase capacity on the pairs, too.

 

[Uncivil_Engineer]

And now, this:

55 members of Congress urge Treasury probe of Chinese company set to build MBTA railcars in Springfield

 

[tysmith95]

And now, this:

55 members of Congress urge Treasury probe of Chinese company set to build MBTA railcars in Springfield

So the company underbid on the contract in order to gain a foothold in the US rail market. Why is this a bad thing? I hate the rhetoric that everything about China is evil, why does it's matter if a Chinese company gets a contract over a Korean company? There aren't any US companies building railcars. If China wants to give the MBTA less expensive trains that's a good thing. This is all just political bullshit.

 

[JumboBuc]

There was a great tweet storm by @JacobAnbinder the other day comparing the way railcars are made in the United States with the airplane industry:

Imagine if Delta, United, and American all bought new fleets of Airbuses, but on the condition they be built in Atlanta, Chicago, & Dallas.

So Airbus agrees and builds 3 plants that will hire local workers and for each airline buy parts from GA, IL, and TX suppliers exclusively

These plants are small bc they only serve that one airline, and they'll sit dormant until DL, UA, or AA need more planes.

Also bc they agreed to hire locally, Airbus has to fly all these people to France to train them.

But they're not very good, bc they don't have much experience *and will never gain much* bc of the limited # of planes they have to build.

Then, fed regulators inspect the planes and conclude they must all have at least 4 engines, for safety, even though 2 are perfectly fine.

So Airbus adds 2 more engines to the plane but changes nothing else. You would never want to fly that airline or set foot on that plane.

*this* is how railcar procurement is done in the US. If you apply it to any other industry it's laughable.

And we wonder why there are no US-based railcar manufacturers anymore--no overseas customer would buy anything they built!

I've thought of this recently every time I hear anything about the Springfield plant...

 

[Jahvon09]

Aren't the cars in married pairs anyways? Maybe just articulating the two car sets would help? That might be the best of all worlds - still allow the pairs to be changed out, but also increase capacity on the pairs, too.

Yeah, usually, the cars in most trainsets are married pairs.

This goes all the way back to the olden days, when only 2-car sets were used. That could be done. Quite similar to the setup of the articulating trolleys on the Green Line.

 

[bakgwailo]

Yeah, usually, the cars in most trainsets are married pairs.

This goes all the way back to the olden days, when only 2-car sets were used. That could be done. Quite similar to the setup of the articulating trolleys on the Green Line.

Yeah, kind of what I was thinking - would totally dig that, and I think it would open up a ton of extra standing room with the now open vestibule, plus it wouldn't hurt operational flexibility. The only downside would be when you now get in a car that's empty and you think you won the lottery, until your olfactory sense kicks in and you understand why everyone else went to the next car

 

[whighlander]

There was a great tweet storm the other day comparing the way railcars are made in the United States with the airplane industry:.....
I've thought of this recently every time I hear anything about the Springfield plant...

JumboBuc -- the plant in Springfield is what the French derisively call a "Screwdriver Factory" -- no other tool is needed -- just open the crate and screw the parts together -- not much training is needed either

Those factories proliferated in Europe to get around the EU regulations on import of fully assembled products. So now the final assembly is done in the EU.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

JumboBuc -- the plant in Springfield is what the French derisively call a "Screwdriver Factory" -- no other tool is needed -- just open the crate and screw the parts together -- not much training is needed either

Those factories proliferated in Europe to get around the EU regulations on import of fully assembled products. So now the final assembly is done in the EU.

LOL

 

[Jahvon09]

F-Line, so what happens now?

Will CRRC be investigated? Will the plan be scrubbed? And what about the new assembly plant that is presently being built?

The request for a probe of the co has stirred up unanswered questions & concerns as to whether the new railcars for the T will be safe to use.

It seems that every damn time that a new program begins to make something better, a monkey wrench gets thrown into the mix!

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

F-Line, so what happens now?

Will CRRC be investigated? Will the plan be scrubbed? And what about the new assembly plant that is presently being built?

The request for a probe of the co has stirred up unanswered questions & concerns as to whether the new railcars for the T will be safe to use.

It seems that every damn time that a new program begins to make something better, a monkey wrench gets thrown into the mix!

Pffft! By Congress? It's another pathetic dick-swinging show vote by the House to look like tough guys, led by a bunch of far-flung Reps whose fee-fees were hurt by not getting district pork of their own to build a manufacturing plant. Absolutely nothing whatsoever will come out of it, because Congress has no binding authority to investigate this and no attention span to follow-through on the pressure. It's the Commerce Dept.'s ball, so all they did was vote on sending a strongly-worded letter to the Commerce Secretary. Note that Mike Capuano, who sits on that same transpo committee, did not sign the letter and issued a statement to let cooler heads prevail before sending any letters.



Chalk this one up to 5-year-olds having the same daily playground spat amongst themselves as yesterday, just with a different target for their ire. It's not that there aren't jitters about CRRC being clean and totally above-board. That's a concern with any Chinese conglomerate seeking influence in U.S. markets, because there's always a Chinese gov't presence behind the scenes. But like any unknown outfit entering a market they get a full fair shake at proving themselves, and if they prove themselves it's all good.

The histrionics here are triggered by Lenovo shooting itself in the foot with that keylogger that was preinstalled on a bunch of their recent Thinkpad notebook computer releases...then their PR violating the "coverup is always worse than the crime" golden rule and causing all sorts of associated fallout (and short-term damage to their stock price). There is absolutely no security comparison to that Thinkpad debacle in an embedded, single-task train control computer. You can't "hack" a Red Line 01900 car and make it do anything malicious; its core functions are too limited, its speed- and stop-enforcement is done by the the same central dispatch-controlled analog magnetic pulse ATO signal system as today, and the vehicle telemetry the computer logs is absolutely useless for national security or spying. In fact, vehicle telemetry being voluntarily shared with CRRC is a 'feature' that helps them fine-tune vehicle performance during the warranty and service & support periods.

Methinks some of these House hacks behind the letter still use AOL at home with their Norton Anti-virus definitions 5 years expired. And call their interns every time their Internet Explorer gets slow from all the toolbars that last (*cough* porn) site in their browsing history installed. This is the level of missing-the-point we're talking with the authors of this angry letter.