New Red and Orange Line Cars

Well, the Orange is the last one to get stuff that has long been put in for other lines eons ago, it seems. Every line has GPS except the Orange Line. :roll:
 
bakgwailo said:
Huh? The new signal technology they are going to use now wasn't there when the EL was replaced, and they did implement ATC (just like on the Red) when it was shifted?
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The technology didnt exist?

Really?

So why were BART and WMATA running 100% automated trains decades earlier?
 
Jahvon09 said:
Well, the Orange is the last one to get stuff that has long been put in for other lines eons ago, it seems. Every line has GPS except the Orange Line. :roll:
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Both the green and blue still use old wayside signaling and have no ATC at all. AFIAK, the green line was the last line to get "GPS"/train tracking (after the highspeed, of course). Also, why would the Orange Line use GPS when it goes in tunnels...

jass said:
The technology didnt exist?

Really?

So why were BART and WMATA running 100% automated trains decades earlier?
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I meant what they are putting in now vs what did decades ago on the Red and Orange and that they couldn't have put this in before on the Orange (not really ATC vs ATO), they did use pretty recent technology for the time for the ATC system. I also wouldn't exactly put WMATA up there as a shining example of ATO, considering I don't think they are even using it again due to remaining safety concerns ;)
 
bakgwailo said:
Both the green and blue still use old wayside signaling and have no ATC at all. AFIAK, the green line was the last line to get "GPS"/train tracking (after the highspeed, of course). Also, why would the Orange Line use GPS when it goes in tunnels...



I meant what they are putting in now vs what did decades ago on the Red and Orange and that they couldn't have put this in before on the Orange (not really ATC vs ATO), they did use pretty recent technology for the time for the ATC system. I also wouldn't exactly put WMATA up there as a shining example of ATO, considering I don't think they are even using it again due to remaining safety concerns ;)
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WMATA paused their automated system after the Takoma incident but is back to automated.
 
jass said:
WMATA paused their automated system after the Takoma incident but is back to automated.
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Really? As of what I read back in April, it seemed like they were not bringing it back anytime soon.
 
That was a pure-d tragedy that they suffered with those 9 deaths.

Shows how the system works when lives are lost as the result of a system failure. Sad. So sad!
 
bakgwailo said:
Both the green and blue still use old wayside signaling and have no ATC at all. AFIAK, the green line was the last line to get "GPS"/train tracking (after the highspeed, of course). Also, why would the Orange Line use GPS when it goes in tunnels...



I meant what they are putting in now vs what did decades ago on the Red and Orange and that they couldn't have put this in before on the Orange (not really ATC vs ATO), they did use pretty recent technology for the time for the ATC system. I also wouldn't exactly put WMATA up there as a shining example of ATO, considering I don't think they are even using it again due to remaining safety concerns ;)
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Am I missing something? Something is amiss here. Hello - EVERY rapid transit line goes through tunnels here. What is your point? :???:
 
Jahvon09 said:
Am I missing something? Something is amiss here. Hello - EVERY rapid transit line goes through tunnels here. What is your point? :???:
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My point is it isn't GPS that is being used to track the trains (other than the above ground green lines and the highspeed, as far as I know), and that the Orange doesn't have GPS, but, it was also not the last line to get train tracking.
 
It's the last one to get GPS though (Say it isn't). Because of the technologies involved, the older trains don't have, nor will they ever come close to having the sophisticated technologies that are featured on the newer trains.

GPS lets passengers know when their desired stops are approaching & have arrived at, by announcing them on the trains' PA system.
 
The WMATA accident that occurred on June 22, '09 at about just after 1700, was the worst & deadliest in the system nationwide in terms of the number of people killed & hurt. A simple fix would've, could've or should've caught this tragedy before it even happened.

It was the result of someone being "asleep at the switch" Suspicion quickly fell on the problem with the tracking control on the tracks that was supposed to slow down & stop the 2nd train from colliding with the 1st one. The lesson learned here was a very erxpensive one in terms of lives lost & people hurt. :eek:
 
Jahvon09 said:
The WMATA accident that occurred on June 22, '09 at about just after 1700, was the worst & deadliest in the system nationwide in terms of the number of people killed & hurt. A simple fix would've, could've or should've caught this tragedy before it even happened.

It was the result of someone being "asleep at the switch" Suspicion quickly fell on the problem with the tracking control on the tracks that was supposed to slow down & stop the 2nd train from colliding with the 1st one. The lesson learned here was a very erxpensive one in terms of lives lost & people hurt. :eek:
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What on Earth does any of that have to do with this thread?
 
chmeeee said:
What on Earth does any of that have to do with this thread?
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It is related in response to the ATO that may be applied to the new Red & Orange Line railcars.

No one would want to see or hear of a tragedy like that happening anywhere else in the country or the world!
 
Jahvon09 said:
It's the last one to get GPS though (Say it isn't). Because of the technologies involved, the older trains don't have, nor will they ever come close to having the sophisticated technologies that are featured on the newer trains.

GPS lets passengers know when their desired stops are approaching & have arrived at, by announcing them on the trains' PA system.
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#1 its not GPS. Next, the Green Line and Highspeed Line were the last to get full tracking. The Orange/Red/Blue all happened concurrently, with the Orange being the first to be fully done (with the last two stations to get them being MGH and Orient Heights): https://www.mbta.com/news/2072 .

Unlike the heavy rail, the Green Line above ground portions (and high speed line) do use GPS, though, which was the complication for fully outfitting the Green Line - you cannot use GPS in the tunnels and thus they had to retrofit sensors/etc (https://www.mbta.com/news/2152). The heavy rails don't use GPS at all as they could already do tracking with their existing setups (http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2015/08/now_youll_know_how_long_you_ha.html).

Anyways, this is getting pretty derailed.
 
One last time;

The present trains running on the Orange Line do not, I repeat, DO NOT feature GPS. The newer ones will have it when they come into service.

The GPS announcements seem to work well in the tunnels, though, at times, the one for the Blue Line tends to act up badly in the tunnel before arriving to Maverick Station.
 
Jahvon09 said:
One last time;

The present trains running on the Orange Line do not, I repeat, DO NOT feature GPS. The newer ones will have it when they come into service.

The GPS announcements seem to work well in the tunnels, though, at times, the one for the Blue Line tends to act up badly in the tunnel before arriving to Maverick Station.
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I mean... only the Green and Highspeed lines have GPS - none of the others do. Do you have a link to specs where they are using GPS in the new rolling stock, because that doesn't make sense. Are you just talking about on train automatic stop announcements? The Orange could have that today in the existing rolling stock if they really wanted to do it (without GPS).
 
Take a look at the link below. Look up at the ceiling of the mockup & note the display with the red writing.

Its writing runs to the left, giving into on approaching stations & gives announcements of certain things. These signs will work in conjunction with the GPS giving the info. It will announce the next stop for the line, as well as tell you when the train has arrived too the desired stain at which you want to get off.

It will also announce when the last stop is reached. Just like on the other lines. :cool:


The present trains on the Orange Line don't do this. And the T is not going to spend money to try to upgrade them to use this feature.

As with the Red Line, it has ordered up more new cars for that line to replace the entire present fleet of trains because they felt that in order to keep them running, they would have to spend about a ton of money to do it, so they are only going to keep them in use until the new trains begin arriving & go into revenue service. :cool:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7dDJvoXgAY-r1U.jpg:large
 
Jahvon09 said:
Take a look at the link below. Look up at the ceiling of the mockup & note the display with the red writing.

Its writing runs to the left, giving into on approaching stations & gives announcements of certain things. These signs will work in conjunction with the GPS giving the info. It will announce the next stop for the line, as well as tell you when the train has arrived too the desired stain at which you want to get off.

It will also announce when the last stop is reached. Just like on the other lines. :cool:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7dDJvoXgAY-r1U.jpg:large
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Sure, I get that - just saying it ain't GPS, and I wouldn't really say the Orange is last to get it (considering that most of the Red doesn't have it, and I don't think the pre-overhaul Type-7s have it). The technology is there today on the line for tracking/station arrival/etc.
 
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