Northeastern University - Institutional Master Plan

[Arlington]

For me, the fact that the library is off-limits is pretty galling. Some access to the Marino Center facilities (at low-use hours) would be nice

As long as they [NU] dont pay taxes, everyone should be allowed in to the library. Same goes for Harvard.

I believe the homeless should be allowed to sleep at churches then.

I don't see how this is unreasonable considering that churches are supposed to be providing such and similar services to get that tax exempt status in the first place.

Oh stop it with the socialist-totalitarian nonsense. I thank God and James Madison that our nonprofits--even NU, which apparently promotes such nonsense-- are not beholden to what you believe.

Part of being a free society is having cultural, educational, religious, social, and scientific institutions free to advance one particular mission chosen for it by its founders, donors, and trustees--and not by you, or the government, or "the neighbors".

By the "logic" (above) of what "similar services" might be, NU would then be free to warehouse books at homeless shelters, Christians could commandeer Harvard classrooms, and PhD candidates should stage their most dangerous experiments in the Emerson theater.

Happily, our system of laws provides that the NU Library, with the guidance of its founders, donors, and their successor-trustees, is free to decide what sort of library it wants to be, what sort of books it wants to stock, and what sort of patrons it shall be open to. A quiet, student-only place to read books seems (to me) like a good place to start, but what you and I believe is irrelevant.

Frankly, given NU's crazy-liberal "progressive" bent, there's no library that more justly deserves to be trashed by squatters in the name of social justice (man, would I love to see that), but even crazy-liberals are free to draw the line somewhere, and if you'd like a church or library or university fully open as a homeless shelter or community center, well, its a free country, and you should start one.

 

[Tombstoner]

Wow. Rant incoherently much?
But seriously, you are onto something. Yes, suggesting that qualified members of the neighborhood be allowed to research in Snell is the thin edge of a (heretofore secret) communist conspiracy. Most people wouldn't have spotted that, but clever Randians (Ayn or Paul) such as yourself know that the rabble have been instructed by the Directorate to ask for library privileges as the first step towards income redistribution, gulags and world domination. Curses, foiled again...you're too smart for us.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Thats complete bs.

As long as they dont pay taxes, everyone should be allowed in to the library. Same goes for Harvard.

Isn't that what a public library system is for.
I get the whole tax exempt thing being quite silly considering the extortion the tuition rates are, but one does not lead to the other. "If you don't pay taxes, we have to be able to use all your stuff" mentality.

Certain hours open to public, or weekends, or off seasons. Sure. All the time has the potential of getting in the way of that very expensive education for those who contribute nothing to the institution.

Of course, on top of paying for class, I also pay a recreation fee to pay for my access to athletic facilities.

Of course, the gym is provided as an amenity on site to try to keep students on campus. It's not there to be a local Gold's Gym. I always see lots of students (a lot of them women) using the cardio equipment lining the glass. Not to claim the neighborhood is full of scoundrels, but those using the facility now might not be to keen to keep going once the neighbors are in ogling them in their yoga pants. The male students, sure go nuts. They're all still college students looking to hook up.

If a gym is needed in the neighborhood, then BSC ought to open up shop and make money. If a library branch is needed (not that the BPL is so far away) open one up. Oh yeah public libraries are dying. So now it's the Universities job to pick up the slack? What sense does that make? They're dying because everyone has internet capability where ever they go.

Reform & regulation of the University systems around here, sure, but this ain't it. Raping kids and their parents for $40-60k a year is the outrageous part.

Complaining about students partying and vomiting in the neighborhood is all well and good, but shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who is alive today. NEU has been there for 100+ years, and students drinking and partying is not a new phenomenon.

 

[underground]

Are here I was thinking you could argue against opening up the library without bringing politics into it.

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

I think some people on this board are confusing "non-profit" with "publicly-owned."

 

[Arlington]

Are here I was thinking you could argue against opening up the library without bringing politics into it.

Really? Welcome to the local and political part of "all politics is local," with "neighborhood planning" being most local and political of all. The City has contrived it as an invitation to the people ("neighbors") to ask for free stuff from the rich guys (NU, in this case).

Ideas as simple as "it's a library, not a homeless shelter" and "it's a private university, not a city park" can't carry the day when the "says who?" problem arises: who gets to say what's a library or a university and what its supposed to do? (Who writes an institution's master plan?)

Marx's answer was "the people" but James Madison's answer was "the person(s) whose it is" Boston walks the line in between, inviting an ongoing tug of war between constituencies over NU's assets.

 

[underground]

Citing Marx and Madison in a discussion about opening NU's library to the public seems like overkill, but hey, what do I know. Next time someone asks me what I want for lunch, maybe I'll drop some Federalist Papers on them.

 

[Arlington]

Citing Marx and Madison in a discussion about opening NU's library to the public seems like overkill, but hey, what do I know. Next time someone asks me what I want for lunch, maybe I'll drop some Federalist Papers on them.

No THAT's overkill.

If someone asks us what we want for lunch, we should order lunch together.

In this case we've got people asking for (or demanding or presuming) a free lunch or to eat someone else's lunch.

That's when you drop some Publius on their ass.

 

[KentXie]

I don't see how this is unreasonable considering that churches are supposed to be providing such and similar services to get that tax exempt status in the first place.

Also as a Northeastern University student I have no problems with public use of the Northeastern Library and think that the university could be doing a lot more in regards to providing educational services to the community. They could for example, not have constructed the futuristic bubble pods on the second floor of the library and spent the money on something for the community even!

I'm not against public usage as long as it's restricted to a certain area or time(maybe one room that allows the public to use it). It's the whole idea that just because it's tax exempt, then everybody gets a piece of the pie.

Fact is, I paid thousands of dollars to be able to use the library for educational purposes. What gives the public the right, when they don't pay NU anything, to take up all the space so I can't use the resources there fully?

 

[dshoost88]

^^To that point and the community's points that they'd like to have some access to NU's campus resources, I reiterate how important it is that the city and the BRA approve Northeastern's IMP so the school can move forward with the 3 million square feet of additional space to the campus in the next 10-15 years.

A Rough Timeline:
--> NU begins enrolling brighter students, late 90's
--> students spend more time studying in library, '00's
--> student retention increases, graduation rates climb, '00's
--> more students use the library, library forced to extend hours 24/7 to meet demand, 2010
--> petty theft and higher library traffic forces school to limit community access to Snell, 2011/12
--> NU digitizes many books and renovates interior to maximize space/capacity, 2012/13

My Crystal Ball Prediction:
--> NU IMP approved by BRA, 2013
--> NU opens Interdisciplinary Science and Engineering Buildings (ISEB), 2015/17; hoards of science and engineering students have new space to study on campus
--> New academic building opens on north lot; NU converts Snell Library classrooms into additional study space, 2017
--> Ryder Hall expansion completes, 2018; hoards of Art, Media, & Design students have new study space
--> By 2020, congestion in Snell Library and other campus facilities is significantly reduced; NU has more open programs for community members

 

[datadyne007]

No THAT's overkill.

If someone asks us what we want for lunch, we should order lunch together.

In this case we've got people asking for (or demanding or presuming) a free lunch or to eat someone else's lunch.

That's when you drop some Publius on their ass.

I (for once) completely agree with you.

Fact is, I paid thousands of dollars to be able to use the library for educational purposes. What gives the public the right, when they don't pay NU anything, to take up all the space so I can't use the resources there fully?

I completely agree. I don't think the non-academic public should have any right to NEU's facilities, especially the library.

 

[Proposition Joe]

I'm not against public usage as long as it's restricted to a certain area or time(maybe one room that allows the public to use it). It's the whole idea that just because it's tax exempt, then everybody gets a piece of the pie.

Fact is, I paid thousands of dollars to be able to use the library for educational purposes. What gives the public the right, when they don't pay NU anything, to take up all the space so I can't use the resources there fully?

I have no problems with their being certain hours that the library would be available either (as long as they are not restrictive) and I did not say that Northeastern should help the community more because they are tax exempt. They should be doing things for the community regardless and that I'm disappointed that Northeastern has been so lacking in this area.

Also, everyone has the right to an education and no one should be priced out of attaining that education. Northeastern University has a societal obligation to the community, not because anyone is paying for it, but simply because they exist within our society and it is reasonable to expect that Northeastern, with their millions of dollars, is capable of providing services to the surrounding community (let alone allow people to walk through a set of doors to their library).

Oh stop it with the socialist-totalitarian nonsense. I thank God and James Madison that our nonprofits--even NU, which apparently promotes such nonsense-- are not beholden to what you believe.

Part of being a free society is having cultural, educational, religious, social, and scientific institutions free to advance one particular mission chosen for it by its founders, donors, and trustees--and not by you, or the government, or "the neighbors".

By the "logic" (above) of what "similar services" might be, NU would then be free to warehouse books at homeless shelters, Christians could commandeer Harvard classrooms, and PhD candidates should stage their most dangerous experiments in the Emerson theater.

Happily, our system of laws provides that the NU Library, with the guidance of its founders, donors, and their successor-trustees, is free to decide what sort of library it wants to be, what sort of books it wants to stock, and what sort of patrons it shall be open to. A quiet, student-only place to read books seems (to me) like a good place to start, but what you and I believe is irrelevant.

Frankly, given NU's crazy-liberal "progressive" bent, there's no library that more justly deserves to be trashed by squatters in the name of social justice (man, would I love to see that), but even crazy-liberals are free to draw the line somewhere, and if you'd like a church or library or university fully open as a homeless shelter or community center, well, its a free country, and you should start one.

Just because I go to Northeastern and have left-leaning views doesn't mean that Northeastern is "crazy-liberal" or "socialist" (those terms are opposites and mean very different things by the way!). The university's administration is actually really bad about social issues and managing the impact it has on the surrounding community. It recently suspended a student organization for exercising its right to free speech just recently. Also, as I was one of the many students who helped our dining hall workers unionize, I very clearly remember the lengths Northeastern went to attempt to stop such a process including using its police to harass its own students. Those workers were from the surrounding community and they were incredibly mistreated with verbal, physical, and sexual abuse. Northeastern very clearly did not give a shit about this.

Also, a university is first and foremost and educational institution; I see no reason why providing educational services, even just granting access to a library, is such a radical departure from its mission statement. Northeastern claims to be a diverse community (its not) and claims to benefit the community (it can do a lot more), so maybe I'm not someone who wants to force Northeastern to do something they don't want to do. Maybe I'm someone who wants Northeastern to fulfill what it claims to be its core values.

 

[DominusNovus]

Because its not a charity organization; you're not getting your education for free (even if it might be you from 5 years from now paying for it, or, if you're lucky, a scholarship is paying for it). You're paying for access to the University's facilities, so why should the neighborhood kids get to just come by for free?

If you're currently a student, then I'm inclined to think that, even with NU's (in)famously long terms for students, you weren't around back when everyone had unrestricted access to the both the library and its computer stations.

It was fairly anarchic over in Snell, let me tell you. Whatever your notions of social justice for the surrounding community are, the majority of the locals that took advantage of the University's facilities did so in a very disruptive fashion.

 

[datadyne007]

I don't believe that the general public should have any access or right to use any of NEU's facilities beyond people doing academic research from other institutions. It is not only a security threat for both NEU property and students' property, but also is a slap in the face to the paying NEU students that might be trying to actually do some research or have a place to work without being next to random townsfolk browsing the web, hanging out in the heat/AC, and using (and possibly damaging) the restrooms. That's what the BPL is for.

 

[jass]

And what recourse does the University have when people not associated with the University abuse that privilege?

The same recourse the prudential center has, which is open to the public 24/7.

Devil's advocate here: my former local St. Mary's, like all other religious institutions, also doesn't pay taxes. Should I be allowed to wander around the rectory or read a book in the pews whenever I feel like it? Cause that place locks its doors at night when there is no service planned.

Who said anything about 24/7 access to the library? If the church is closed, its closed to all. If the library is closed, its closed to all.

But when theyre open, they should be open to all. Those who abuse it should be handled individually.

 

[dshoost88]

Who said anything about 24/7 access to the library? If the church is closed, its closed to all. If the library is closed, its closed to all.

But when theyre open, they should be open to all. Those who abuse it should be handled individually.

The Snell Library does not close!!! For the millionth time, it is open 24/7 in order to meet the student demand. That and safety concerns are among the reasons the library's access became limited to the public in the first place.

And your Prudential Center comparison holds little weight. Any persons from the public going to the Prudential Center at 3AM in the morning are just passing through the complex--they're not purposefully there for any other reason. A college library is first and foremost a place for students to study.

------------------

For goodness sake, stop all this talk about the library. This is a thread about the NU IMP. There are at least a dozen new projects associated with this plan that we could be discussing thoughtfully, as well as about 200 pages of comments written to the planners that would be fun to discuss as well.

 

[Tombstoner]

I don't believe that the general public should have any access or right to use any of NEU's facilities beyond people doing academic research from other institutions. It is not only a security threat for both NEU property and students' property, but also is a slap in the face to the paying NEU students that might be trying to actually do some research or have a place to work without being next to random townsfolk browsing the web, hanging out in the heat/AC, and using (and possibly damaging) the restrooms. That's what the BPL is for.

I do NOT have a right to use the Snell library. Never said I did. But universities should recognize that they are--like it or not--part of a neighborhood and that they impact their neighbors in lots of ways (sometimes positively, but often negatively--and I say this as someone who has taught at public and private universities for most of my adult life). Framing this as a choice between throwing the doors open to anyone who wants to come in and putting up electric fences to keep out any non-tuition-paying member of the public seems like a false dichotomy. I have written several books (all of which are in Snell), a couple dozen articles (in journals Snell carries) and am doing research of relevance to many NU departments. I also supervise and mentor NU interns at the NGO where I work. But because I am no longer an academic, I cannot enter Snell. That doesn't seem very much in keeping with any university's mission to generate knowledge or NU's stated committment to be a good neighbor. A well-considered policy to permit neighbor-researchers use the library should not be considered a "right" by neighbors, nor a "slap in the face" by NU students.

 

[bbfen]

Oh good grief, stop whining pick up the phone and call someone to see if you can get special priveleges as an author already.

Back to the IMP!

 

[Tombstoner]

Oh good grief, stop whining pick up the phone and call someone to see if you can get special priveleges as an author already.

Back to the IMP!

Not really whining--trying to make a case (maybe you don't know the difference).
By all mean, back to the IMP.

 

[jass]

Oh good grief, stop whining pick up the phone and call someone to see if you can get special priveleges as an author already.

Back to the IMP!

If you don't know how to have a discussion like an adult, Im not surprised you have no interest in access to library.