Occupy Wall St/Boston
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TheRifleman
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History Of The U.S. Gubermint Bailout Gravy Machine...1970 Penn Central Railroad $3.2 Billion
1971 Lockheed $1.4 Billion
1974 Franklin National Bank $7.8 Billion
1980 Chrysler $4.0 Billion
1984 Continental Illinois National Bank and Trust Company $9.4 Billion
1989 Savings & Loan Debacle $293.3 Billion
1994 Mexico Bailout $50 Billion
2001 Airline Industry $18.6 Billion
2008 Bear Stearns $30 Billion
2008 AIG $122.8 Billion
2008 FNM-FRE $200 Billion +
2008 No Banker Left Behind Bailout $700 Billion +
Comment: Interesting how the bailout history before 1970 is somewhat more muted minus the Marshall Plan to bailout Europe and Japan....This cyclone of bailouts coincides with the Nixon removal of the gold window for the USD and the parabolic arc from 1971 of debt in the United States...
TheRifleman
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In my opinion people, The protests might get worse.
Put 90% of congress behind bars for the bailouts and other fraud. On December 01, 2010. The www federal reserve dot gov released its BAILOUT information on 21,000 that got BAILOUTS both local and foreign. It was nearly 1 year 11 months after the bailouts and the list is not a comprehensive listing. I suggest you go to the website www federalreserve dot gov and take a good hard look.
INVESTIGATE THE DERIVATIVES FRAUD ON WALL STREET and the Dodd Frank Act. The cover up act. Dodd not coming clean on his estate in Ireland/housing. And Barney Frank and his boy brothel in the basement of his house. THIS IS THE CONGRESS THAT MAKES THE FINANCIAL REFORM LAWS! some 21,000 got BAILOUTS.…see federalreserve dot gov....In April 2005 and approved in October 2005, see www uscourts dot gov , the congress changed the INDIVIDUAL bankruptcy laws making in harder for middle class to do chapter 13. See the new means test. Why did congress do this ? ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE Banking cartel. Its not federal. Turn off CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, NBC and get news from somewhere else. They report activism, social engineering, and sensationalism.
Justin just tell me if you want more?
Put 90% of congress behind bars for the bailouts and other fraud. On December 01, 2010. The www federal reserve dot gov released its BAILOUT information on 21,000 that got BAILOUTS both local and foreign. It was nearly 1 year 11 months after the bailouts and the list is not a comprehensive listing. I suggest you go to the website www federalreserve dot gov and take a good hard look.
INVESTIGATE THE DERIVATIVES FRAUD ON WALL STREET and the Dodd Frank Act. The cover up act. Dodd not coming clean on his estate in Ireland/housing. And Barney Frank and his boy brothel in the basement of his house. THIS IS THE CONGRESS THAT MAKES THE FINANCIAL REFORM LAWS! some 21,000 got BAILOUTS.…see federalreserve dot gov....In April 2005 and approved in October 2005, see www uscourts dot gov , the congress changed the INDIVIDUAL bankruptcy laws making in harder for middle class to do chapter 13. See the new means test. Why did congress do this ? ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE Banking cartel. Its not federal. Turn off CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, NBC and get news from somewhere else. They report activism, social engineering, and sensationalism.
Justin just tell me if you want more?
Lurker
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I'm not allowed to have a diverse political opinion on a puritanical Boston architecture board? Heresy!
Lurker
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I feel so loved right now. It's not like I've ever directed anything personally at anyone here.
Less raving lunacy and more numbers. I'm not really interested in your thoughts on "Barney Frank and his boy brothel in the basement of his house" or your capitalized calls to "ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE." I understand you are upset, but take a deep breath and try to stay coherent.
Take a moment to look over http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary. Your 2008 numbers add up to over a trillion dollars:
2008 Bear Stearns $30 Billion
2008 AIG $122.8 Billion
2008 FNM-FRE $200 Billion +
2008 No Banker Left Behind Bailout $700 Billion +
But of this only $580 billion has been spent. $278 billion has been paid back and $67 billion has been earned in interest. It is important to remember that most of this money was in the form of loans, not gifts. The government is currently out about 235 billion dollars, not $1 trillion+.
I don't want to trivialize $235 billion. It's an absurd number. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if the bailouts saved us from a depression as many claim, though logically it seems to have saved us from further financial meltdown. We'll never know exactly what would have happened if these banks had failed, but I think it's fair to say that things would have been pretty bad for a while. Much worse than they are right now. You can argue that this would have been better for the country in the long run as some do.
I will point out that the Dodd-Frank Act that you seem so adamantly against reduced the bailout funds (which you seem so adamantly against) from $700 billion to $475 billion. What is in the bill that makes it a problem for you? Have you actually read it?
Are you a Libertarian? Are you in favor of a laissez-faire approach? Are predatory lending practicing all right in your opinion?
Lurker
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Predatory lending is a bunch of nonsense unless it's a small time deal being pulled by local RE and bank agents as part of a flipping or bankruptcy fraud scheme. Larger banks and mortgage companies loose money foreclosing on houses and having to deal with all the legal wrangling and resale of the properties.
The Community Reinvestment Act REQUIRED banks to make sub-prime loans to unqualified people for years. It was only recently that banks figured out they could take these worthless to downright costly mortgages, and repackage them with other assets to make them appear on paper to look like the sound investments they weren't. This was a great way for banks to hide all the crap they had to keep on the books because of the CRA. Accounting crap like that always occurs in businesses and the government itself to make the picture look rosier than it is.
Unfortunately, and where the real criminal fraud charges should be made, is some people got the great idea to sell and trade these crappy investments. Usually to other financial institutions. So at the end of the day all the big banks thought they unloaded their garbage onto some other sucker, when in fact they themselves have bought someone else's garbage too. This was great at the time, because not only were financial institutions unloading worthless garbage as something valuable, but they were generating additional value by induced demand and competition over buying this garbage. Everyone had an idea that this wasn't sustainable and eventually someone was going to notice that they were merely passing trash around and treating it like ever appreciating precious metals or bonds. But at the time, it still looked great on paper. The general public kept investing the big banks stock because everything looked great on paper and the government pretty much shrugged and looked the other way.
Then eventually the market realized the value of the paper didn't match the real value of the assets backing the paper and it all came crashing down.
What's going on the the currency crisis in Europe and the upcoming debt crisis here is the same. The accounting of assets and revenues is not going to be sufficient to back what's on paper or the stated value of paper currency. People suddenly realizing a commodity is worth less to nothing of what it had been valued at previously always leads to a disaster.
The Community Reinvestment Act REQUIRED banks to make sub-prime loans to unqualified people for years. It was only recently that banks figured out they could take these worthless to downright costly mortgages, and repackage them with other assets to make them appear on paper to look like the sound investments they weren't. This was a great way for banks to hide all the crap they had to keep on the books because of the CRA. Accounting crap like that always occurs in businesses and the government itself to make the picture look rosier than it is.
Unfortunately, and where the real criminal fraud charges should be made, is some people got the great idea to sell and trade these crappy investments. Usually to other financial institutions. So at the end of the day all the big banks thought they unloaded their garbage onto some other sucker, when in fact they themselves have bought someone else's garbage too. This was great at the time, because not only were financial institutions unloading worthless garbage as something valuable, but they were generating additional value by induced demand and competition over buying this garbage. Everyone had an idea that this wasn't sustainable and eventually someone was going to notice that they were merely passing trash around and treating it like ever appreciating precious metals or bonds. But at the time, it still looked great on paper. The general public kept investing the big banks stock because everything looked great on paper and the government pretty much shrugged and looked the other way.
Then eventually the market realized the value of the paper didn't match the real value of the assets backing the paper and it all came crashing down.
What's going on the the currency crisis in Europe and the upcoming debt crisis here is the same. The accounting of assets and revenues is not going to be sufficient to back what's on paper or the stated value of paper currency. People suddenly realizing a commodity is worth less to nothing of what it had been valued at previously always leads to a disaster.
TheRifleman
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^^^
The entire situtation is absurbed. 500 billion or Trillions the govt does not have clue how much it bailed out the banks.
". I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if the bailouts saved us from a depression as many claim,"
Lurker should back me up on this. I think. The reality of perception and keep confidence in the GOVT is nothing more than Laws.
**The bankers & Investment houses should have followed the bankruptcy Laws
**restructure or liquidate to private investors
**the Govt should have used taxpayers money for loans to successful companies to clean up the mess and buy the so called assets from these corporations.
This would have cleanse the system much faster....and put a true value of worth for the dollar.
This scenario would probably lead the United States fall into a deflationary depression? This would not be a bad thing in my opinion.....Our country consumes so much at this point that we need to slow down and start appreciating what we have.
That is the probelm in our markets is pricing? Nobody knows what the value of anything is worth because Bernanke continues to keep interest rates at 0% trying to create inflation.
Not sure if you have kids? But how many Ninento's, Playstations, Wi, Computer games do they need. That is my point.
The powers in Washington saved the morons that don't have a clue. Which leads me to Real Estate Developments in the city using taxpayers money. These people are business men, They are nothing more than THIEVES
Million dollar question is does our Govt and the Federal Reserve Bankrupt this country through INFLATION OR DEFLATION?
The entire situtation is absurbed. 500 billion or Trillions the govt does not have clue how much it bailed out the banks.
". I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if the bailouts saved us from a depression as many claim,"
Lurker should back me up on this. I think. The reality of perception and keep confidence in the GOVT is nothing more than Laws.
**The bankers & Investment houses should have followed the bankruptcy Laws
**restructure or liquidate to private investors
**the Govt should have used taxpayers money for loans to successful companies to clean up the mess and buy the so called assets from these corporations.
This would have cleanse the system much faster....and put a true value of worth for the dollar.
This scenario would probably lead the United States fall into a deflationary depression? This would not be a bad thing in my opinion.....Our country consumes so much at this point that we need to slow down and start appreciating what we have.
That is the probelm in our markets is pricing? Nobody knows what the value of anything is worth because Bernanke continues to keep interest rates at 0% trying to create inflation.
Not sure if you have kids? But how many Ninento's, Playstations, Wi, Computer games do they need. That is my point.
The powers in Washington saved the morons that don't have a clue. Which leads me to Real Estate Developments in the city using taxpayers money. These people are business men, They are nothing more than THIEVES
Million dollar question is does our Govt and the Federal Reserve Bankrupt this country through INFLATION OR DEFLATION?
KentXie
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Ok how about you use your whit and tell me why we need to tax the rich more? Why are we giving a tax cut to ALL CLASSES if the government needs more revenue. And I love that the first thing you point out is that I'm colored "wool red." Why is that? Because I'm Chinese? That makes me Red? I use logic to reach my conclusion. If you keep cutting taxes, where are the money going to come from? Who's going to make it up? Just the rich? How will you make up the deficit? Cut spending by cutting infrastructure expenditure and education? That's literally shooting one's foot because not only are you degrading your physical capital, you're degrading your human capital. You end up making people less productive. The only horseshit is that people still believe the US is fine as it is.
KentXie
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The Democrats did nothing because the GOP are not willing to compromise. If you want to fire those three, you might as well fire the whole House and fill it with moderates from both sides.
TheRifleman
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Listen I agree that taxes need to be raised probably on everybody. But the real problem is GOVT SPENDING........CUT GOVT SPENDING to the extreme and raise taxes to balance the budget
The other problem that you don't seem to understand is when you have a private organization controlling your currency called the Federal Reserve. They are trying to debase the currency which destroys the buying power for the working class.
Between the amount of GOVT Spending and Inflation........Main Street the people that actually create real jobs experiences an absolute NIGHTMARE.
This is were the classwar begins.
KentXie
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Usually these are the only choices we can vote for, so we'll keep getting the same pile of shit. Both parties cater to the people that financially support them and have no concern for the other people.
TheRifleman
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Absolutely right 100%.....I'm not saying the protests are right on the Greenway. I just think that the politicans need to be held accountable. Not just say Tax the rich. Thats bullshit.
KentXie
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What you don't understand is where they are cutting government spending. Why cut spending on education and infrastructure? They should be cutting the pitholes in the Middle East.
Also by cutting government spending to the extreme, why don't you tell me just about how many American workers who worked in government financed jobs will get laid off and tell me how is that beneficial to our economy when additional millions become unemployed?
TheRifleman
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The govts always cuts the programs we actually need to try to justified not to make anymore future cuts.
Have you seen the entourage our political leaders roll with these days. It must cost the taxpayers thousands a day to fund our senators and congressman.
What happened to the 700 Billion dollar stimilus that Obama and the Democrats recommended? What did that cover?
Lurker
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"Compromise" usually means accepting the worst of all worlds in politics. We need different policies that work, not some half cocked play nice to the people across the aisle that would fuck you over a minute overture.
Taxes should be equally applied to everyone under the equal protection under law clause of the constitution. "Progressive" tax schemes allow nothing but loophole after loophole and for some people, rich or poor, to have absolutely no skin in the game. It's a recipe for disaster when people that don't care how the government spends tax money, as they pay no taxes, get to vote. Often those people will vote themselves the treasury from the pockets of others and that's no way to sustain a Democracy.
That said we should be cutting taxes and onerous regulations across the board to bring manufacturing and investment back to the US. Right now our rates and regulations do so much to drive capital overseas it isn't funny. Even driving down energy costs through nuclear power and domestic energy exploration would bring industry back to the US. Cutting the cost per KWh is huge to the manufacturing sector alone. Doing this, as when Kennedy and Reagan did it, will grow the economy large enough to offset the revenue dip from lower tax rates.
Infrastructure, educational, and military spending is a boondoggle and need to be reigned in massively. Not because of the merits of that spending, but because there's no efficiency in it. Prevailing wage laws, union monopolies, pet projects, procurement red tape, and outright fraud are eating up most of this spending. We are overpaying for basic labor, material, and accounting costs. The debt service alone borrowed to pay for a lot of this ineffective crap is going to eventually cripple the country. For all the harping about government spending helping the GDP, it actually hurts it when the money is borrowed and even more money gets siphoned away from effective spending to pay the interest.
We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Get spending under control before asking the hurting taxpayers to bail out the government even more. Then work on making what spending is left highly efficient such that we get the best bang for our buck.
Taxes should be equally applied to everyone under the equal protection under law clause of the constitution. "Progressive" tax schemes allow nothing but loophole after loophole and for some people, rich or poor, to have absolutely no skin in the game. It's a recipe for disaster when people that don't care how the government spends tax money, as they pay no taxes, get to vote. Often those people will vote themselves the treasury from the pockets of others and that's no way to sustain a Democracy.
That said we should be cutting taxes and onerous regulations across the board to bring manufacturing and investment back to the US. Right now our rates and regulations do so much to drive capital overseas it isn't funny. Even driving down energy costs through nuclear power and domestic energy exploration would bring industry back to the US. Cutting the cost per KWh is huge to the manufacturing sector alone. Doing this, as when Kennedy and Reagan did it, will grow the economy large enough to offset the revenue dip from lower tax rates.
Infrastructure, educational, and military spending is a boondoggle and need to be reigned in massively. Not because of the merits of that spending, but because there's no efficiency in it. Prevailing wage laws, union monopolies, pet projects, procurement red tape, and outright fraud are eating up most of this spending. We are overpaying for basic labor, material, and accounting costs. The debt service alone borrowed to pay for a lot of this ineffective crap is going to eventually cripple the country. For all the harping about government spending helping the GDP, it actually hurts it when the money is borrowed and even more money gets siphoned away from effective spending to pay the interest.
We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. Get spending under control before asking the hurting taxpayers to bail out the government even more. Then work on making what spending is left highly efficient such that we get the best bang for our buck.
BostonUrbEx
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Heh.
You didn't actually respond to my post. Instead, you're talking about the game systems children are playing... again.
I tried.