One Greenway (Parcel 24) | 0 Kneeland Street | Chinatown

[Beton Brut]

Re: Parcel 24

I think ablarc is making the outlandish suggestion that this project's street presence could be enlivened with a mix of uses on the ground floor -- restaurants and retail on Kneeland, perhaps community oriented uses like a gym or youth center down the block.

Indeed, it's usually at this stage in a thread when someone says, "looks like Sert" in response to "looks like s*&t." If we could be honest, we'd concede most of Sert looks like s$#t, but that's against the current design orthodoxy.

I'm guessing this is directed at me, as I've mentioned Sert often, as recently as last night. His name comes up because he built a lot in this town. This project looks nothing like Sert. It certainly does look like:

...another variation on the 1330 Bolyston-Merano-One Charles-Avenir theme...

All I'm saying is: "Can we please try something else?"

 

[statler]

Re: Parcel 24

I think ablarc is making the outlandish suggestion that this project's street presence could be enlivened with a mix of uses on the ground floor -- restaurants and retail on Kneeland, perhaps community oriented uses like a gym or youth center down the block.

What in the those diagrams indicates that won't happen?

All I see are blank store fronts. They can be restaurants, retail or even gyms.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Parcel 24

See that. Looks pretty tame, and nothing like the vibrancy of Chinatown. Not a nightspot, to be sure. How about a big Super 88, with roll-up doors onto Kneeland Street? How far down Albany and Hudson Streets does this go?

ablarc -- Do your questions / concerns around the programming of this project involve the lack of an office-space component?

 

[statler]

Re: Parcel 24

The biggest difference I see between that image and Chinatown is the width of the street.
We can all agree that the streets should be a lot narrower but I'm not sure that falls under 'programing'.

Edit: Signage is a big difference too, but that can always be easily modified.

 

[InTheHood]

Re: Parcel 24

Okay, I was being a bit snarky. And to the extent that this differs from Sert's Holyoke Center (perhaps the best mixed-use analog from his extensive ouevre of awful local buildings, which failed in the same way this does) it is frankly an improvement. But the point is, it ain't the neighborhood that's the problem. On our academic campuses, where the professionals run the show, the "programming" is pure, and input from the great unwashed is limited, we see plenty of similar buildings with many of the same issues.

"Programming" is more architecture-speak. What, exactly, did we expect them to put in this building at this location?

Ablarc, I respect your input a ton from years of participation on this forum, but frankly I don't see where the input of the community caused the problem here. If the architects can't be responsible for more than "massing" on a simple six-story rectangle, we are paying them waaaaay too much.

 

[el raval]

Re: Parcel 24

From today:


Friday, August 22, 2008

Chinatown?s Parcel 24 to connect past with future

Boston Business Journal - by Michelle Hillman Boston Business Journal

The developers of a 325-unit residential project are moving forward with plans bring back neighborhood uses lost nearly 40 years ago when the Central Artery tore through Chinatown.

The project, known simply as Parcel 24, is being proposed by the Asian Community Development Corporation and New Boston Fund Inc. It?s one of the few residential projects moving ahead during a time of market turmoil.

Developers that have been unable to secure financing for large construction projects have been forced to put plans on hold, and residential construction in Boston has all but ceased.

Jeremy Liu, executive director of the Asian CDC, said the project is not as exposed to market conditions because half of the units are designated as affordable. In addition to the 325 units ? 70 of which are to be rentals ? the 20-story tower will contain 5,500 square feet of commercial space and 6,000 square feet set aside for community uses. The project contains 10,000 square feet of open space and has a parking garage for 175 cars.

?We think it?s a great project,? Liu said. ?If you look carefully at the market you will see select developments that are still going forward.?

Liu said the Parcel 24 was not in the same situation as other large construction projects sidelined when the national credit crunch reduced the amount of debt available to developers. Parcel 24 is eligible for tax credits due to the affordable component.

Liu and New Boston Fund earlier this month filed a ?Draft Project Impact Report? with the Boston Redevelopment Authority that updated the design for the project?s central open space. The project still needs to be approved by the BRA. Liu expects the permitting could be completed by the fall.

John Palmieri, director of the Boston Redevelopment Authority, said he believes the project will benefit the neighborhood. He said adding affordable housing to Chinatown is an important part of redeveloping the site. While Parcel 24 is in the permitting stage now, Palmieri said it will be tough to predict what the market will look like in two years when the project will likely be under construction.

The Asian CDC and New Boston Fund originally responded to a request for proposals from the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority in 2005.

The team was designated by the Turnpike Authority the in 2006. The parcel of land the project will be constructed on is owned by the Turnpike. The land was taken by eminent domain and used by the Turnpike to construct the Central Artery. The completion of the Big Dig removed the ramp and enabled the block to be redeveloped. Previously, Parcel 24 was home to an immigrant community of more than 300 residents and a number of retail shops.


LINK

Going back to the article posted on Friday, a few things jump out:
It says that the initial proposal was in 2005, but this is just moving forward now? Something in the 3 year delay seems to have dumbed down the design so that it looks akin to everything else that is being built nowadays; whether that was a change of heart from the architects or the client, design input from the BRA, or community input, we can probably thank the "process" of getting something built in Boston.

As for the programming argument, the whole thing is just massive. Why 325 units on a site that small? It also mentions that half of the housing is supposed to be affordable: is that even possible to deliver in today's economic climate? Or, is it possible to deliver competent design with that type of program?
The article does mention ground floor retail and community space, so that should at least help the street.

 

[InTheHood]

Re: Parcel 24

So let's review the programming:

- I don't see any problem with the number of units. I might even argue for more. This is the middle of the city, a couple of blocks from South Station. It should be dense, no?
- Ground floor retail, check.
- Limited on-site parking relative to number of units, check.
- Mixed use including some commercial with the residential, check.

The only bit I can see as being controversial is the high "affordability" quota. If what we're saying here is, "if they didn't have the affordability quota then the architects could have chosen better materials and wouldn't have xeroxed a design we've seen in ten other places" then we should say so. Personally, I'd hope we could set a higher bar, even given the constraints.

It's up to the architects to break up the mass and reduce the monotony. Its up to the architects to provide some "pop" to retail traffic - whose fault is it that the retail is hard to distinguish in these renderings? It's up to the architects to choose the colors, the materials, to create the space definition between public and private, to create visual interest, to innovate. Every time one of these lookalike buildings goes into construction, one of the wags on this site notes that the building is more "interesting" in its semi-finished state with colorful Tyvek or insulation panels. Whose fault is that? Chinatown itself is a riot of color and neon. I don't see any nod to the local vernacular.

The problem isn't that "non-professionals" objected to a proposal that was creative or notable - the problem is that the "professionals" at Goody Clancy presented a design that we've seen over and over and over again, consistent with the preferences of Mr. Shen and the "professionals" at the BRA for "understated modernist buildings that don't call attention to themselves." If it was a matter of the "programming," then why have we seen this same building as high-end condo, hotel, office, and university faculty?

Frankly, the neighbors are mostly just glad that they don't have to look at a wall or a highway.

 

[ablarc]

Re: Parcel 24

Frankly, the neighbors are mostly just glad that they don't have to look at a wall or a highway.

Better than a parking lot.

 

[statler]

Re: Parcel 24

What type of programming should have been built?

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Parcel 24

I still don't understand the term "programming". Are you referring to something like the Rowes Wharf summer outdoor performance and movie series? That's a very nice amenity, but not something most developers can or should be expected to provide.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Parcel 24

Reminds me of a college dorm. No imagination at all. I think the Patriots guy could design something better in SC4.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Parcel 24

I still don't understand the term "programming".

Field-specific jargon, Ron.

The British analog to "program" is "brief."

Reminds me of a college dorm.

Kinda like this?

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Parcel 24

Thank you for clearing that up, Beton Brut, I too was having a difficult time understanding the term.

Other than the aesthetic design of the building, I personally do not see a glaring hole with this project. I like the number of units, and I tend to agree with the number of affordable units. Assuming that the ground floor retail is filled with decent shops and a restaurant or two that have something of a local flavor (I wouldn't want to see a cookie cutter store or another Starbucks), I like the ground floor retail component. And the green space and community space is prominent, but I don't think that it overtakes the project. The park is a very nice complimentary piece.

I believe that it was el raval that was a little unhappy with how 'massive' the project was relative to the proposed plot of land it is going to be built on. I am going to take InTheHood's side on this one. Parcel 24 is located close to South Station and a number of towers - this is the place for density.

My only problem is the aesthetic design (I would have much preferred the original design), but, in the grand scheme of the project, I believe that that is a relatively small factor in determining whether or not it will be successful. Parcel 24's main goal is to give the land back to the people that it was taken from back when they built the Central Artery, as well as to reconnect that area of Chinatown with the rest of the city. If Parcel 24 can accomplish those two goals successfully, then I will gladly sacrifice a great architectural design for the end result.

 

[eaalkaline]

Re: Parcel 24

Can somebody please remind me what was so great about the original design? I like the latest proposal more than the first- it at least (yes, just like 1330 Boylston) breaks up the facade so its not a boring flat-faced block that spans 4 blocks. They could use better materials but these days thats what separates the good projects from the great. In fact... I kinda like this building

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Parcel 24

I like the number of units, and I tend to agree with the number of affordable units.

It's okay with me.

(I wouldn't want to see a cookie cutter store or another Starbucks)

Wouldn't it be smart to make the retail space part of the project's "affordable" component to attract new tenants from within the community?

The park is a very nice complimentary piece.

Better than some parts of the Greenway.

(T)his is the place for density.

Agreed.

(T)he aesthetic design...is a relatively small factor in determining whether or not it will be successful.

Isn't that kinda...sad?

 

[Boston02124]

Re: Parcel 24

compare the two side by side

I like the 1st one's roof line instead of the same old box'es of the second one.I also like the use's of glass in the 1st one.

 

[Arborway]

Re: Parcel 24

Oh that just makes the redesign look so much worse. The first one had interesting massing, the second is a college dorm built out of plastic.

I forgot Boston hasn't reached its quota of junk architecture yet.

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Parcel 24

Wouldn't it be smart to make the retail space part of the project's "affordable" component to attract new tenants from within the community?

I would agree with that. Many retailers with the local, personal feeling are also family establishments that can't afford high rents. I am not sure what the going rate will be the retail space, but I do think it would help appeal to those types of stores to make it affordable.

Isn't that kinda...sad?

Yes, I do think that it is a little disheartening. However, I get more upset about the lack of architectural quality on other projects. Do I want to see a fantastic design at Parcel 24? Absolutely, but the higher goals for the project are much more important than the exterior design. Projects that do little more than generate profit for the developer - those are the projects that I get more upset about when it comes to the design. If the project doesn't benefit the city/neighborhood in a way like Parcel 24 or Columbus Center, shouldn't it at least contribute to the overall backdrop and appearance of the skyline?

Boston02124 - Ugh. While I still stand by my explanation above, this project took a major step back in terms of the exterior design. While not groundbreaking, the first one was an example of nice 'background' architecture. That is, a building that doesn't stand out, but it is nice and works well with the surroundings. The re-design doesn't even accomplish that.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Parcel 24

See that. Looks pretty tame, and nothing like the vibrancy of Chinatown. Not a nightspot, to be sure.

But isn't that OK here? Not all of Chinatown should look like Tyler Street, any more than the whole North End should look like Hanover Street. It's a neighborhood where people live, not just eat.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Re: Parcel 24

first design>>new BU tower>>new design