Portland, ME - New Construction Continued

grittys457 said:
Well they're fenced off and digging away on the main free street entrance. At least it's started.

That would suck greatly if Phase II didn't happen cause we've all said how much we like the design. The housing in there is the most expensive part and look how fast phase one sold out. If they can count on that they should be able to feel confident enough to proceed.

I've said a hundred times but we need things downtown for people to do that aren't just duckboats and trinket shops. I was down there early this morning when cruise ship passengers were roaming around and if the stores aren't open and it's too early for lunch, there is nothing to do besides walk around. I don't know what we need but something for tourists and us to do. An aquarium would be nice but something a little less wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

To me, the best thing to do in a city is sometimes nothing at all. Look at other people, sights and, in the case of planners/developers, “sites”, and just be. That’s why coffee shops are so popular – not for the coffee, but the atmosphere. That beings said, it wouldn’t hurt if there was more of a waterfront boardwalk available. The eastern waterfront trail is great, but would be nice to have run along the harbor too. That gets into the debate of working waterfront, which is one I have opinions on but one I’m not going to get into. Remember the rumor is just a rumor. It came from someone in the neighborhood association in the surrounding area. I don’t want to spread misinformation, so take it as nothing more than what it is. Both a rumor and hearsay (a rumor once removed?). I wouldn’t worry about it. Plus, if nothing else happens on that site, we have the Hampton Inn, which is also one of the best projects of recent times. Behind it the retail alley spots seem to have installed new signs and are looking good.
 
Patrick said:
it wouldn’t hurt if there was more of a waterfront boardwalk available. The eastern waterfront trail is great, but would be nice to have run along the harbor too.
Click to expand...

Not to get too far off subject, but from the perspective of a tourist getting off of a cruise ship, the first stretch of the Eastern Waterfront Trail appears as nothing more than a run-down warehouse-type building (Portland Company), an under-maintained, under-landscaped and aesthetically un-appealing marina and boat yard (Sprague) and a railroad junk yard (all the clutter from the spare narrow-gauge railroad cars and equipment strewn about the area). If I was getting off a cruise ship and had no knowledge of the area, then I wouldn’t know the amazing public space that beckons just beyond that (East End Beach and Eastern Prom). I wouldn’t wander in that direction, because I’d think I was heading into the “wrong section of town”.

That “railroad junk yard” is the worst. I used to hate walking by that when I lived up on the East End and walked that trail. It’s like having a white trash next door neighbor that leaves all their crap and clutter in the yard along with a couple junk cars and a few plastic pink flamingos.

The point – that section of the Eastern Waterfront needs a serious clean-up and power-washing. Hopefully it does get cleaned up when the narrow gauge railroad leaves, Portland Yatch Company moves and someone redevelops the Portland Company site (if that’s even environmentally feasible).

And I really hope Sprague stays on top of maintaining and landscaping the new boat yard he wants to build on Western Commercial Street and doesn’t let it turn into the mess that he has at his current facility.
 
Canal Plaza Hotel latest renderings:
scaled.php

scaled.php

scaled.php

scaled.php

scaled.php

scaled.php

scaled.php
 
Is the drive in/out changed in these latest ones? I know that was the one concern. Also terrible material for that neighborhood
 
grittys457 said:
Is the drive in/out changed in these latest ones? I know that was the one concern. Also terrible material for that neighborhood
Click to expand...

I have my personal tastes on the material for the building as well, but prefer not to state what they are or let that influence my administration of the code--I think I would design this differently, but I also think it fits perfectly here, and the mishmash is part of the city's appeal, in some ways. Look at the CIEE building. Also remember that this will go through HP too. That board has more sway on design.

I agree the restaurant would have made things better, and in my professional opinion the zoning would have allowed it or could have with very minor adjustments like an open air terrace or connection to the adjacent building, which would have met the minimum height requirement or circumvented it by bringing an existing building closer to the street. But the planning board wanted the developer to dedicate the open space in perpetuity (forever) in exchange for a zoning modification necessary for building the two towers taller. Bogus requirement in my opinion, and one which seems to stem from a poor understanding of urban design in public spaces, but at this point that's neither here nor there. The hotel is the focus now, it appears. And it will be a great addition.
 
Love that facade!! It feels like a lower and more engaging version of the Hampton Inn & Suites Crosstown Center (at Mass Ave/Melnea Cass), without the great massing/oblique angles of course.

l.jpg

665510_1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Everything here is either brick, brick and cheap looking metal, or just cheap metal. Why can't we get something different like the building post 390 is is Boston or the w
 
grittys457 said:
Also I'm in shock Corey hasn't posted one pic of the CCCC renovations. Homeboy is slipping. Hopefully the commercial street rats didn't steal his camera.
Click to expand...

Haha, I'm still here and my camera is safely in my possession. I haven't seen any physical change to the outside of the Ciivic Center yet, unless they did something major within the last couple days. I will keep you all updated.

Good points about the importance of having more than duckboat tours and trinket shops. The area around Ocean Gateway is certainly moving in the direction and so far has made some improvements that both tourists and locals can appreciate.

And the proposal for the Canal Plaza hotel is pretty interesting. Hard to really judge the quality of the facade from those renderings. It's nice to see something other than brick, but if it is going to go for the modern look I would definitely be open to something more flashy.
 
Portarch disrespected the dirty brook on the pph a couple days ago. That's my job!!

Any ideas if the fences will come down at planet fitness and trader joes once built? Can't have a huge project like this and two ghetto fences not letting people walk through. Maybe new nicer designed ones that stop cars but allow people


Also have you seen that fancy crosswalk in front of bayside student housing? Pretty nice
 
PortlandArch said:
Bayside Project Financing Deal OK'd
http://www.pressherald.com/news/bayside-project-financing-deal-okd_2012-09-20.html
Click to expand...

I don't get Cheryl Leeman. I know it's more complex than this, but here's some quick "back of the napkin" math:

Current Estimated Property Value = $2,200,000
Curent Portland Mill Rate = $18.82 per $1000 of valuation
Annual Property Taxes = $41,404

New Estimated Property Value after Phase 1 = $38,000,000 (probably more once built)
Curent Portland Mill Rate = $18.82 per $1000 of valuation
Annual Property Taxes = $715,160

Increased Annual Tax Revenue = $673,756
Estimated Annual Loan Payment = $363,706 (assumes 2% interest and 30-year term)
Net Increased Annual Tax Revenue = $313,050

Seems like a no-brainer to me, esepcially since the City doesn't have to be in the business of operating the garage, which many not make a profit until Phase 2 is built and Bayside fills in more.
 
grittys457 said:
I honestly want to slap the faces of commentors on the pph. Morons. Grade a
Click to expand...

The NIMBY-ism is already starting. I really hope this doesn't turn into another Lincoln Square from the 1980s. "Oh my God, it's too big! We're all going to die because of it's size!!!"

Yes, I'm being overdramatic, but that's pretty much in line with what the NIMBY's spewed in the 1980's on Lincoln Square and will probably do on this project.
 
One actual concern I thought of and I'm not joking, is there a concern for building materials and what they might reflect on to 295?
 
grittys457 said:
Portarch disrespected the dirty brook on the pph a couple days ago. That's my job!!

Any ideas if the fences will come down at planet fitness and trader joes once built? Can't have a huge project like this and two ghetto fences not letting people walk through. Maybe new nicer designed ones that stop cars but allow people


Also have you seen that fancy crosswalk in front of bayside student housing? Pretty nice
Click to expand...

The fences in front of Trader Joes along the trail may stay. As I understand it the property owner has it there and doesn’t seem interested in removing it. This may or may not have something to do with a personal tiff with the adjacent landowner.
I don’t think the NIMBYism will prevent this project. In the 1980s, it didn’t even prevent Lincoln Square. Remember that that project was fully approved and ready to go, albeit in a shorter version than originally proposed. Remember also that it violated the height limits then in place by much more than this project would. I think the whole city downtown had a 150’ height limit, which was too tall for the Old Port, too short for Congress. The City hired a firm out of Cambridge to study the heights and they proposed a cascading structure, lower toward the Old Port, higher toward Congress. That is, I believe, why the height limits allow the 7 story tower currently envisioned for the Fore/Union site, while the buildings behind it are much taller, and in front of it much shorter.
In 2006 Bayside adjusted its height limits to reflect the relatively new plan for that area. The debate was whether to allow higher buildings more close to Congress, or closer to Marginal Way. Ultimately, planners decided that there was evidence that people like a variety of heights and that the structure they proposed would allow 15 story buildings or so in certain areas when certain conditions are met. The bayside neighborhood is in strong support of the height limits, of this project, and of the urban design guidelines it will have to follow. There is a quote from the BSNA leader saying “we can’t even spell NIMBY” if all the rules are followed on this project. That’s the way a well thought out plan should work.
Also, the planning board may require materials samples to be brought in, and for a project of this magnitude it will receive more close review than something minor, you can bet on it. The planning board chair is an architect and is really all for inspiring design.

and back to the NIMBY thing -- I can't tell when it will show up. The BSNA likes this project, but the ISNA thinks the Bay House consists of 'massive towers.' At the same time, residents of the India St. neighborhood said they weren't opposed to Joe Boulos' 15 story tower proposal near the courthouse in 2007, but in 2004 the other 17 story tower he proposed across the street would knock the elderly off their walkers by creating a wind tunnel. I've never seen an elderly person on a walker on Cumberland Ave.
 
That's the thing - you never know when the NIMBY-ism will show up, but it almost always does in some manner. Mainers seem to like their cities just the way they are. They tend to see development like this as a sign that Portland is turning into Boston, which it is not and never will be. I think a lot of the NIMBY-ism in this state is more just pure a resistence to change and moving from the status quo than anything else.

I hope I'm wrong and nothing holds up this project, because I'm tired of looking at that vacant land, a giant pile of dirty snow and Oakhurst milk trailers.

I also really hope that fence behind Trader Joes/Planet Fitness does come down. I'm guessing it will. It doesn't make any sense to keep it there if/when both phases are built.
 
Last edited:
Dr. StrangeHat said:
That's the thing - you never know when the NIMBY-ism will show up, but it almost always does in some manner. Mainers seem to like their cities just the way they are. They tend to see development like this as a sign that Portland is turning into Boston, which it is not and never will be. I think a lot of the NIMBY-ism in this state is more so just pure a resistence to change and the status quo than anything else.

I hope I'm wrong and nothing holds up this project, because I'm tired of looking at that vacant land, a giant pile of dirty snow and Oakhurst milk trailers.

I also really hope that fence behind Trader Joes/Planet Fitness does come down. I'm guessing it will. It doesn't make any sense to keep it there if/when both phases are built.
Click to expand...

Yes, but in this instance the choice is between millions in investment or a dump yard. I think the public knows that.

I'd like to see the whole trader joes building itself come down and replaced with a high rise to complete the urban block. How odd will that be once this project is built? Picture Congress St. with a one story building on it....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top