Portland Passenger Rail

[markhb]

I'm still regretting not taking the chance I had to ride with the Great Dome car the last year it was here. Little did I know the car would get damaged and be offloaded by Amtrak a few months later.

So far as the Swiss cars go, if Acela First Class isn't going to be that nice, I certainly don't see Amtrak buying something like that for the few seats in a Cafe/Business combo car.

 

[Cosakita18]

Recently, Mexico imported some secondhand British HST trainsets for use on its new "Interocean corridor" and these photos demonstrate why it's difficult to bring off-the-shelf European rolling stock to operate in North America.

North American rail equipment (especially freight rolling stock) is big and heavy and our loading gauge is much larger. Passenger equipment operating on the mainline network needs to be designed differently to be able to safely withstand any potential collision. These HST coaches were built to be lightweight for high speed operations.... but they would crumple like wet cardboard in a collision with....say...Three Dash-9's hauling a double-stack intermodal train.

v

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

The new Amtrak passenger trains coming soon to the Downeaster will at least have larger windows than the current ones. Although I don’t believe Amtrak has any single-deck view cars, they do have a superliner view car on western routes, which wouldn’t be compatible with DE route due to high level platforms.

Theoretically Amtrak could've ordered some single-level lounges with the Viewliner II order. The Viewliner design, which is owned in-house by Amtrak, is modular and would've allowed carbody punch-outs for large windows wrapping up to the ceiling like the Superliner Sightseers. They no doubt have some in-house schematics showing how a lounge of that type would look, as they mocked up several additional Viewliner configurations that were never built. But the V2 order with CAF had to cover the five-alarm essentials--replacements for the truly ancient baggage cars and diners, supplemental sleepers to expand the ranks, and a new class of baggage+crew dorm cars--during a famine era for funding, so nice-to-haves like lounges weren't a part of it. And I think they're done dealing with CAF, which blew lots of delivery deadlines very badly with the V2's (although by all accounts they ended up being high-quality product)...so supplemental V2's are probably not in the cards.


EDIT: There are two Viewliner observation cars in the company inspection fleet, made from converted Viewliner I prototype sleepers. Not often used in revenue service as it's usually reserved for company executives, but it's got a gigantic window trailing the train.

 

[TC_zoid]

From today's PPH. Unrelated, or maybe not, I'd like to see some view cars for the Downeaster. That could bring some more excitement to the train. As it is now, it's too claustrophobic inside, so you have to simply pass the time looking at your phone or laptop. Also, part of the funding is for a line from L.A. to San Francisco. That will have a hefty price tag, for sure. It looks like the lion's share of this money is going to La La Land, a city known for its freeways, not mass trans (that's not changing). But if the Vegas/LA train had cool food/bar cars and some gaming, that would probably make it a hit.

 

[Cosakita18]

The Downeaster will be getting new equipment in 2028-29. The "Airo" trainsets will have Siemens Venture coaches exactly like what are currently used on Florida's Brightline. These new coaches will have bigger windows, modern amenities and will go a long way to making the experience more attractive.

But Amtrak has done a good job maintaining and upgrading the ancient aAmfleet coaches. Most of those coaches are pushing 50 years old.

The biggest priority for the DE is improving reliability and reducing choke points and slow zones. Rebuilding curves and adding more double track would do so much to make the service more reliable and competitive with driving or the bus.

But $27 million doesn't go as far as it used to. The Wells siding / station project is coming in at about $25 million and that's getting them 6 miles of new double iron, a new platform and a pedestrian bridge.

 

[BosMaineiac]

Great to hear the West Falmouth infill station is getting another look!

 

[markhb]

But if the Vegas/LA train had cool food/bar cars and some gaming, that would probably make it a hit.

That's actually not an Amtrak project; it's Brightline West, building a whole new trail line down the middle of I-15. I doubt there will be gaming on board since 90% of the route is in California, but Brightline has shown in Florida that they're capable of running a successful operation.

 

[TC_zoid]

That's actually not an Amtrak project; it's Brightline West, building a whole new trail line down the middle of I-15. I doubt there will be gaming on board since 90% of the route is in California, but Brightline has shown in Florida that they're capable of running a successful operation.

It's in Biden's Federal funding with the Amtrak projects. It's an ongoing discussion in LA as to why it has to be that thousands and thousands of Southern Californians need to fly or drive every single weekend to spend their money over the border in Las Vegas (I've done it many times). There are Indian casinos near Palm Springs and San Diego, but they are laden with another set of rules that reduces the fun in the experience, so don't bother. So, make the train a bigger deal and give half the gaming profits to the state of CA. Nevada won't mind as they will see even more coming to the state to part with their money. And it won't be a two-hour ride, it will be a three hour one (intentionally). That's a good bite of time to throw your money away gambling. It's a win/win for everyone, except for the two aforementioned Indian casinos. CA will get substantial tax revenue because many will lose it on the train, or before they arrive. It's another de facto consumption tax, but one from an activity or purchase that is completely not necessary. If there were a big and competitive casino in OOB at the Downeaster stop, it would be hugely successful. Just wipe out a few of the lipstick-on-a-pig motels to create some room. The state already runs de facto gaming (lottery), and thousands of Mainers lose their money gambling on crypto currencies (Robinhood, etc.). Encore in Boston (Everett) is expanding onto the power plant land, of which they bought for $800 million. It will be another 1,000 hotel rooms (or more) and a venue for shows. And, Robert Kraft will be behind a build for a 25,000 seat soccer stadium there for the Revolution. Why only go to a soccer game in Portland when you can at Boston's version of Las Vegas? Boston is becoming a substantial year-round entertainment destination. Maine should see this for what it is--a big revenue loss to Massachusetts. Maybe we could create a new page, "Old Orchard Beach Casino". The one in Oxford is not a destination, it's an abomination, if anything. Maine needs to be proactive with making money instead of reactive.

 

[qianlixiaorob]

Here's to hope that the transportation center can get some love and update.

 

[markhb]

Here's to hope that the transportation center can get some love and update.

Essentially, NNEPRA and MaineDOT (and the city) are looking to move Amtrak to St. John St., and the current Transportation Center will revert to simply being the Concord Coach terminal (they own it). Concord has said they have no interest in relocating; maybe Greyhound will join in the new station since they no longer have one but Concord has really cleaned their clock and they're down to 1 or 2 trips per day into Portland.

 

[Portlander]

Where on St John Street Mark, near where the old station was and close to the new Maine Med garage?

 

[markhb]

Where on St John Street Mark, near where the old station was and close to the new Maine Med garage?

MaineDOT is taking the lead, and the study page is here. You're essentially correct; they want it on the mainline somewhere between Mountain Junction and Congress St. To my mind, the most likely candidates are either buying the Ferguson showroom (their competitor across the street, Granite Group, moved to the former Happy Wheels on Warren Ave.) and converting it or building new, or getting a storefront in Union Station Plaza and working out platform access vs. loading dock access for the other tenants in the shopping center.

 

[Portcity75]

Not one dime should be spent on anything but lowering the Portland to Boston time. You can tell someone all the facts of how much time and money parking down there adds to driving but you still can’t help think in a car it’s almost always 90 minutes from turnpike in sopo to Tobin .

 

[markhb]

To be brutally honest, the "best case" of improvements I've ever seen (in a report MaineDOT and NNEPRA commissioned c. 2010) is to reduce the Portland-Boston time to 2:15. The Wells siding under construction is a big chunk of getting to that, and my understanding is that the money that has been awarded recently is going towards that (absent the additional $500k for study work on some existing projects), but the route is at the twin mercies of a) the various towns it goes through the heart of to serve, and b) 30+ miles of MBTA-owned track that is in various states of repair.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

To be brutally honest, the "best case" of improvements I've ever seen (in a report MaineDOT and NNEPRA commissioned c. 2010) is to reduce the Portland-Boston time to 2:15. The Wells siding under construction is a big chunk of getting to that, and my understanding is that the money that has been awarded recently is going towards that (absent the additional $500k for study work on some existing projects), but the route is at the twin mercies of a) the various towns it goes through the heart of to serve, and b) 30+ miles of MBTA-owned track that is in various states of repair.

The Western Route is pretty much at historical bests on speed and travel time save for stripping out some of the absurd amounts of schedule padding for train meets. Once you take care of the meets issue (Wells + more double-tracking overall) and relocate the Portland station to whack the time-consuming Mountain Jct. sojurn...that's pretty much it. There is nothing else that can feasibly be done within the available geometry. Even trying to uprate the very straightest sections to Class 5/90 MPH barely makes any time difference for the $$$ because the straightaways are so short.

 

[Portcity75]

To be brutally honest, the "best case" of improvements I've ever seen (in a report MaineDOT and NNEPRA commissioned c. 2010) is to reduce the Portland-Boston time to 2:15. The Wells siding under construction is a big chunk of getting to that, and my understanding is that the money that has been awarded recently is going towards that (absent the additional $500k for study work on some existing projects), but the route is at the twin mercies of a) the various towns it goes through the heart of to serve, and b) 30+ miles of MBTA-owned track that is in various states of repair.

Thanks for answer . Even 2:15 sounds better. Even from mental aspect

Honestly making improvements from wells to north station would work as most of us would have no problem doing that drive and park

 

[PlantArch]

Essentially, NNEPRA and MaineDOT (and the city) are looking to move Amtrak to St. John St., and the current Transportation Center will revert to simply being the Concord Coach terminal (they own it). Concord has said they have no interest in relocating; maybe Greyhound will join in the new station since they no longer have one but Concord has really cleaned their clock and they're down to 1 or 2 trips per day into Portland.

Of course the final solution will likely make no sense. If they were to do it right, they would build a single transportation hub to serve all forms of ground transportation with room to grow as the city does. But I am sure the various modes of transport will end up scattered across the map.

 

[BosMaineiac]

The Western Route is pretty much at historical bests on speed and travel time save for stripping out some of the absurd amounts of schedule padding for train meets. Once you take care of the meets issue (Wells + more double-tracking overall) and relocate the Portland station to whack the time-consuming Mountain Jct. sojurn...that's pretty much it. There is nothing else that can feasibly be done within the available geometry. Even trying to uprate the very straightest sections to Class 5/90 MPH barely makes any time difference for the $$$ because the straightaways are so short.

How crazy a transit pitch would it be to reactivate the Eastern route from North Berwick to South Portland and upgrade it to 110mph?

 

[markhb]

How crazy a transit pitch would it be to reactivate the Eastern route from North Berwick to South Portland and upgrade it to 110mph?

Considering that much of it is now the Eastern Trail, I think it's really, really crazy

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

How crazy a transit pitch would it be to reactivate the Eastern route from North Berwick to South Portland and upgrade it to 110mph?

Pretty crazy. The line was abandoned too early (early-1950's) for landbanking, so the property lines are a mess. Especially from Scarborough-South Portland where there are streets and houses built on the ROW (you'd have to do a nearly 2-mile long marsh trestle to cut over early, which is going to be a heinous budget blowout and tough EIS'ing).

Where the Eastern can help you is Boston-Dover. The line is fully landbanked from Newburyport to Portsmouth, and it's extremely straight with few/widely-spaced/minor grade crossings north of Revere so 90 MPH is feasible on most of the route and 110 feasible on some of the long straightaways (esp. south of Portsmouth). Kittery-North Berwick is likewise non-landbanked, so the solution there is to go along the CSX Newington Branch to end-of-track at Piscataqua River, then glom onto the median of NH 16 (the highway claimed the old ROW to Dover) where there's plenty of room. Then use a short trailed section of ROW in Downtown Dover to hook into Dover Station. Then tart up the Western Route from Dover to Portland best you can...applying electrification (the freight clearances are a little easier to handle in Maine vs. NH), curve mods to ease some speed restrictions, 90 MPH running on the straightaways to squeeze blood from stone. Generally speaking the Western is a little straighter in Maine than in MA and NH, so the combination of the Eastern + Newington Branch to Dover and upgrades in Maine will make it about the best it can be. Commuter Rail to Portsmouth, a fairly high-leverage get, would amortize the investment for the current DE.


AFTER that you can evaluate bypasses on the rest of the Eastern. Saco-South Portland is probably never going to be doable because of the Scarborough encroachment, but North Berwick-Saco is clear and very straight. You could second-phase a bypass there if the property lines situation proves manageable, but it's fully optional. I doubt you'd be considering something like that until after the North-South Rail Link in Boston allows for a substantial Northeast Regional schedule extension to Portland, because the DE alone probably is never going to be schedule-dense enough to merit the pain of trying to bypass.