Quaker Lane + Congress Square | Downtown

Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

Meh. Architects sometimes do have the heart and soul of an artist (very rare these days), and some like to think they do. Cutting off the nose to spite the face would leave us with a lesser City.

Finally get to use that phrase in its exact proper application.

And something I forgot earlier. People like to say things like, why tear these down when there is a garage, or a parking lot, or a craphole building two blocks away? Because someone owns those, is making money on those, or biding their time. This block is being sold and potentially redevloped. Deal with it. Cannot just move it two blocks over to a more suitable location.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

No it is not. It is precisely about aesthetics and nothing more.

Indeed. A building with only 15 percent of its original composite materials is no different than a T-Rex display that is only 15 percent original fossilized bits and the rest plaster. Maybe the Landmarks Commission should require plaques on these buildings providing a precise inventory of what was preserved and what is new. Perhaps that will help soothe the righteous indignation.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

DaveM, step back from the ledge. Most pre-war buildings in Boston have been renovated so many times, all that remains true to the original is the column lines and floor slabs (and sometimes not even that).
So anytime there's a new tenant fit out we're killing the soul of a building??
You look at Russia Wharf and get sick. I look at Russia Wharf and marvel at the lack of expansion joints, the detailed cornices, the hand-crafted lintels and sills, etc. These elements are not economically viable in today's real estate market (even if you could find the craftsmen to do the detailed work).
As Fattony said, it is precisely about aesthetics.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

Um... what?! I've roamed the Filene's vacant interior with the property manager (a friend of mine) on multiple occasions over the past couple of years. I can assure you, the weight-bearing columns are very much in place. You write as if the Burnham Building's facade is a Hollywood-designed fake--but there's still all kinds of structural components in there. Please explain.

I believe that Ron meant to refer to the building at the corner of Franklin and Hawley Streets. Only the facade of this building remains. The previous plan was to retain this facade and integrate it with the new tower - a facadectomy. Under the current Millenium proposal this facade will be torn down. As a result, the project will not include a facadectomy as the Burnham Building itself will be retained and restored.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

OK, maybe I'm wrong about Filene's. I should go back and take another look. I recall seeing only two exterior walls standing (Summer and Washington sides), with most of the internal flooring, stairways, elevators, etc. ripped out. In any event, whatever is eventually built inside here will have little or no resemblance to what was there before.

On the broader issue: many more people will walk by these buildings on Devonshire Street (or any other street) than will ever go inside. So for most of us, the façade is the building. That's why it's important to keep intact, if it's of high quality and historical value.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

I certainly agree Ron. I would add that to me it's not just about the the quality and historical value of the individual buildings, but the value that they have collectively.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

I look at Russia Wharf and marvel at the lack of expansion joints, the detailed cornices, the hand-crafted lintels and sills, etc. These elements are not economically viable in today's real estate market (even if you could find the craftsmen to do the detailed work).

The lack of expansion joints is because those walls are bearing and not veneer. Masonry walls aren't some mythic lost art, they are simply more expensive due to the labor involved compared to steel frame buildings clad with the cheapest rain screen imaginable.

As far as ornament:
The cornices are cheap stamped and rolled cookie cutter productions easily replicated with basic tooling. The sills and lintels were machine carved with water powered drills and easily replicated with modern cast or CNC carved materials. The issue of missing ornament isn't a lack of craftsmen and surprisingly not significantly cost of the individual elements. It boils down to developers not wanting to pay 5 cents for something ornamented when something plain for 4 cents will sell just as well.

The cowardice of architects to run away from ornament at the behest of their peers is also part of the problem.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

If there is any "soul" in these buildings, it was almost all in the facades. Whether Filene's is facadectomy or not, it's not like it was a Wanamaker's inside.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

The lack of expansion joints is because those walls are bearing and not veneer. Masonry walls aren't some mythic lost art, they are simply more expensive due to the labor involved compared to steel frame buildings clad with the cheapest rain screen imaginable.

It's not just labor though, correct? Masonry walls are thicker and take up more real estate (especially on the ground floor where it needs to be really thick to support the load) which eats into potential profits and I would imagine but huge, load supporting slabs of granite would be insanely expensive.

All the more reason to preserve what we already have.

As for detailing you are correct. I doubt all but the most discerning would be able to notice a difference between a hand carved cornice and a machined one.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

The lack of expansion joints is because those walls are bearing and not veneer. Masonry walls aren't some mythic lost art, they are simply more expensive due to the labor involved compared to steel frame buildings clad with the cheapest rain screen imaginable.

Of course. That's my point.

It boils down to developers not wanting to pay 5 cents for something ornamented when something plain for 4 cents will sell just as well.

We're saying the same thing Lurker. If you're going to spend more on construction than I am then you've got less to spend on land than I do. So you don't end up with the land, I do. Especially if we're both financially backed by pension funds requiring similar returns. Ergo, it's not economically viable to build load bearing walls, granite sills, etc.

The equation above can only be trumped by a developer's ego or an institution's pride (e.g., a corporate headquarters, a university building, etc.).
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guastavino_tile
^That's what they tore out of Russia wharf. Every single floor plate, gone. Its also inside of the BPL.

Let me ask this. What is the purpose of load bearing masonry if it is not bearing a load? If it looks good, then build load bearing masonry. If load bearing masonry isn't appropriate for that type of building, than it is inappropriate to have a building look that way. It's like the arches at Olive Garden with the fake stone on the bottom of them. You couldn't possibly build an arch out of stone that way, it would fall down. Its untruthful.

Good buildings, the ones you like, the ones you admire, are full of truth. That is inherently why you are attracted to them. The construction dictates the form of the building. If it is a load bearing masonry building, it has large, majestic brick walls with small windows and deep recesses. If it is a steel building it has large windows with some sort of cladding, be it cast iron, granite, whatever. A wood farmhouse looks like a wood farmhouse. An apartment looks like an apartment. Frank Lloyd Wrights houses have their form because they are constructed of cantilevered slabs of concrete a'la fallingwater or long wood beams as seen in his prarie houses. Take that away, and they are nothing. Unless you are a really godawful talentless hack, simply following the simple form dictated by your chosen method of construction (decided by the purpose the building will serve) will give you a pretty damned attractive building. This is why old mills looks so good. They have no real style or ornimant, but people love them. They speak to themselves and what they are.

So what is a facadectomy? It is a complete mockery of this fundamental basis of truth in architecture. That's why I referenced post-modernism. I could also reference plastic flamingos, vinyl siding, asphalt bricks, or every other tacky faux-pas that has been invented for the consumerist public over the years. They take this truth of architecture that dates to the romans, and before them the greeks, and throw it in the garbage. Would the ancient aqueducts be as attractive as they are to you if they were really steel with formstone stuck on? Or the temples of athens if they were wood covered in molded vinyl?

Applying a style to a building does not make that building true. Thats why everyone complains about how "disney" most modern attempts are at recreating buildings as we did in the past. When it is done as a truthful recreation (that new building on newbury st) they are wonderful. But it is expensive, and hard. So a cop-out solution is reached, where a "style" is applied to a building and it comes out looking like a fakery, because it is. The plywood palaces with fake brick and asphalt mansard roofs being built in charlestown are a great example of this.

A facadectomy is not the same as an interior renovation, or even a gut job (although they can be harmful as well). They completely remove the relationship between a buildings skin and its bones. It removes the history, the sense of place. It takes away the evidence of the hundreds of people who have walked through it, worked within it. Anyone in the field worth their salt can look at old plaster lines, bows in the floor, nail holes, etc and understand the relationship between the core of the building and its interior uses, and its history. Its why the White House, despite its massive renovations over the years, has been allowed to retain the smoke damage from the british burning it.

For a technical understanding, read the US Secetary of Interior's standards for preservation:
http://www.nps.gov/hps/tps/standguide/

I'm not on a ledge up on an ivory tower. I jumped into this field both feet forward precisely because of issues and misguided attempts such as facadectomies. I'm a preservationist, and this is NOT preservation. Its a sham.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

OK, maybe I'm wrong about Filene's. I should go back and take another look. I recall seeing only two exterior walls standing (Summer and Washington sides), with most of the internal flooring, stairways, elevators, etc. ripped out. In any event, whatever is eventually built inside here will have little or no resemblance to what was there before.

Ah, now I see what you are describing. Yes, that's a largely accurate description. One interesting note: the Wash and Summer street facades are Beaux Arts, but the Hawley Side is bland generic 1940s brick. The transition is quite stark from the windows of Archie's Deli and kind of abrupt and jarring.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

I still can't understand how you can walk down Summer St and think "this feels fake".

Disney World feels fake. Summer St does not.
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

As far as I can tell, the Hawley side of Filene's was always the utilitarian side, as it needed to accommodate a loading dock. (Sorry to derail this discussion further.)
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

Quaker Lane

9058708597_6fb9446216_b.jpg
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

^ Need moar this!

Take note, developers. I'd $hell out for neighborhoods full of this!
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

But the shadows! And the firetrucks! And the children! My god, wont anyone think of the CHILDREN!!!!


I've been reading a bunch about the fights some "new urbanist" developers go through trying to build small, dense streets with their developments, since thats, ya know, what people like. One particular story stuck out where they wound up having to designate all the streets as service alleys just to get it to pass the zoning board. Its so difficult to build here already, giving people streets they want will make it impossible.

Hopefully this will change with a new mayor and BRA switchup
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

I hope. Alleys/small streets don't get much respect around Boston which is a shame. They're safer for children too ;)
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

Rumor of the week: Related/Beal has agreed to buy the Fidelity Block, an amalgamation of historic offices long owned and occupied by Fidelity. Although those involved with the deal aren't ready to discuss it, the cluster of historic buildings certainly has much potential given the premier location fronting Congress and State streets. The property can continue to attract traditional Financial District office tenants or has the potential to be adaptively redeveloped for multifamily housing, hospitality or a mix thereof, says Colliers EVP Lisa Campoli, an experienced market observer.

http://www.bisnow.com/commercial-real-estate/boston/my-story-bill-mccall/
 
Re: Fidelity's HQ may go high

If they plan to raze it and put up another mess of pre-cast/alucobond/awkward glass (e.g., the Seaport, the Kensington) or just a puke-worthy amalgam of hideousness (the Suffolk building planned for Beacon Hill), there truly is no hope for Boston.
 

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