Radian (Dainty Dot) | 120 Kingston Street | Chinatown

Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Lurker said:
Better get used to it now. It'll hurt even more when Shreve's gets murdered.
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I feel like for that one we should all hold a vigil at the site dressed in black.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

Not sure on why they tore this down but truly sad. Beautiful piece of Boston history destroyed
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

TheRifleman said:
Not sure on why they tore this down
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That part is pretty clear:

-Kairos Shen, your city government's architectural henchman -- sorry, planning commissioner, didn't want a privately built "iconic" building to "distract" from the masterpiece of public space that is the Rose Kennedy Greenway

-Kairos Shen determined that the developer's original plan, which preserved the Dainty Dot's facade while adding glassy floors up top, would be such a "distraction"

-The "uniconic" limits the developer was left with forced (or enabled) him to build the cheapest thing possible -- which is the design we're getting, and which meant the destruction of the Dainty Dot building

-In sum, we are now getting the cheapest workable design possible -- but at least that pesky beautiful historic building will stop distracting everyone from the Greenway that your state and city governments have endeavored to hard to turn into a success

-Prediction: This bothersome beautiful old building gone and a deservingly awful prefab-and-glass building going up in its place, the Rose Kennedy Greenway will begin a new era of tremendous success. The architecture around the Greenway will indeed be so miserable at this stretch that people will finally think a grassy median strip in the middle of a highway looks good in comparison
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

itchy said:
That part is pretty clear:

-Kairos Shen, your city government's architectural henchman -- sorry, planning commissioner, didn't want a privately built "iconic" building to "distract" from the masterpiece of public space that is the Rose Kennedy Greenway

-Kairos Shen determined that the developer's original plan, which preserved the Dainty Dot's facade while adding glassy floors up top, would be such a "distraction"
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That's not really the greenway there, just sidewalks and a small park.

Don't blame Shen he's just menino's lap dog. I've watched about dozen people hold that post and none have been as bad as Shen, again this is all menino will allow.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

What year was the original building built?
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

You guys are being a bit dramatic. I walked by there today and saw that there are a number of other similarly looking buildings to the one that's being taken down. I love old buildings, but these are nothing special. I'm happy to see another decent sized tower near to bring more people to the downtown area.

If they were tearing down that building to build another government center, highway or a parking lot, I would be mad. This is no biggie.
 
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Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

^^^^
Nice to see Mrs. Shen posts here.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

TheRifleman said:
The building was built in late 1800's. Are you soft?
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Riff -- much of Boston was built in the late 1800's and the first decade of the 20th C.

That's when the city's population was surging, industry was growing, filling was underway all over, rail and roads were expanding, and oh yea there was a big area which had recently burned downtown

The result a whole lot of new buildings -- not all of them were the BPL, Trinity Church, the eponymous Chadwick Leadworks, or the Cunard Building

Many of them were OK, especially when in context to the their neighbors -- but few of them were so good that they should be preserved for all time against all possible alternatives
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

whighlander said:
Many of them were OK, especially when in context to the their neighbors -- but few of them were so good that they should be preserved for all time against all possible alternatives
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Whigh, we could have both preserved this building AND provided a better alternative for this site than we are getting. What the heck are you even trying to argue here?
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I'm cool with Westie's theory. But the oldsters should be preserved against the shitty alternatives, especially the steaming fetid fly blown viscous ones.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I think what most people here seem to want is an Atlantic Wharf. A brick base with a glass tower. I've been spending some time with that building and it's good not because they kept the brick facade, but because it's a well-designed building.

In some ways the brick facade holds it back, forces it to be a bipolar building.

What Boston needs more of is the Davenport Building on 1st street in Cambridge, the buildings on Congress St in Fort Point near the Seaport.

If the Dainty Dot building were refurbished like the Davenport: then fine. But making it another Atlantic Wharf -- with a glass tower and a brick base -- is not good.

No developer finds refurbishing the Dainty Dot financially sensible, it seems.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

tobyjug said:
I'm cool with Westie's theory. But ....
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Toby -- the key is the magnitude of the "clear-out" and how the newby fits:

1) If you tear out the fabric completely -- then you are responsible for building from scratch overall somehing better than what you removed -- this is hard
a) The verdict seems to be mostly failure for the West End -- especially since we have a somewhat overlly romanticized image of the "old West End" and the hearty transplanted Eastern / Central European peasents who inhabited it.
b) Similarly, after the Great Boston Fire of 1872 -- a lot of Washington St. and many blocks closer to the harbor had to be replaced. Only the basic layouts of the streets and a few relatively unscathed survivors could be preserved. However, since there were few photographs of most of the anonymous warehouses, we really don't know how well tbhe replacements would have fitted had they been replaced piecemeal.

2) On the other hand if you take out one building -- the task of building a replacement is somewhat easier. While it is desireable that the new building be an excelent work of a great architect -- the neighborhood will survive and thrive as long as the new building is a good neigbor with its older surroundings.

We see a lot of examples of the latter [#2] throughout Boston even in historic neighborhoods such as the North End, Beacon Hill and the Back Bay. Fires and the business decisions of individual developers have removed buildings and they've been replaced more or less successfully, For example the Cunard Building was the result of a developer tearing down a handful of smaller buildings on State Street to build a Peabody and Stearns masterpiece.

A lot of the recent take out one and replace it with something new in Boston has been an attempt to have your cake (the old accepted and perhaps loved street level) and eat it too -- with a modern tower. Often this has been a failure when Exchange Place tower hung a bit more than the outer wall of the Boston Stock Exchange on one side the tower, what Robert Campbell called a Facadectomy -- nothing of the original Stock Exchange as a building was left -- even the grand stairs moved to the lobby of the tower. Sometimes a success when a new tower sits attop or behind a renovated building -- Atlantic Wharf.

With the Dainty Dot gone and not just left as a ghostly wall or two -- the key will be how well the new tower integrates into the Chinatown neighborhood -- TBD
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

JoeMail said:
I think what most people here seem to want is an Atlantic Wharf. A brick base with a glass tower. I've been spending some time with that building and it's good not because they kept the brick facade, but because it's a well-designed building.

In some ways the brick facade holds it back, forces it to be a bipolar building.

What Boston needs more of is the Davenport Building on 1st street in Cambridge, the buildings on Congress St in Fort Point near the Seaport.

If the Dainty Dot building were refurbished like the Davenport: then fine. But making it another Atlantic Wharf -- with a glass tower and a brick base -- is not good.

No developer finds refurbishing the Dainty Dot financially sensible, it seems.
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But Joe, 99.9% of the people who "experience" Atlantic Wharf will never set foot inside. And alot of those that do go inside for the restaurants, retail or BSA will never make it up to the tower. For them it's what's happening at street level that is most important. And I for one think the street level of Atlantic Wharf is infinitely better than we'll have with 120 Kingston.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

In all honest, for the street level is to get better, I feel like no matter how well 120 Kingston St is design (previous design or current) it won't be enough to enhance the street level activity there. They would need to fix the entire Kingston St and do something with that parking lot across the street.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

whighlander said it better than I could have. All I can add is this:

Menino and Shen have won and won big. They put a high class apartment tower in what was the slummiest part of _Chinatown_ much less Boston. This infusion of real estate tax dollars, rich people, and their money will be a win: for Menino, Shen, Bostonians, and the people of Chinatown.

The tragedy here is that architectural preservationists have no idea how hard they've lost the fight. And the time between now and when they realize this will be spent charging at windmills. I hope when it hits them, there will still be time to fight the real fight: to ensure that the new building is good. To ensure that it is porous enough for public access and beautiful enough for public admiration.

Old does not mean good, and new does not mean bad. Even if old tends to mean good, and new tends to mean bad. I don't think anybody remembers the buildings that the Apple Store or Prudential Center displaced.

AmericanFolkLegend, on the Atlantic wharf. Among the many good things about that building, the red brick facade facing Fort Point Channel isn't one of them. That facade went up when the area was still a slum. Its interface with the water might be worse than the Intercontinental's facade next to it.

Having said all this , I walked from the Boston Opera House to the Dainty Dot building along Avenue De Lafayette. Watching that building as I approached it was a glorious sight. I recommend all of you do it during the daylight within the next 48 hours before it is no more.
 
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Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

The people of Chinatown did not win anything from this. They wanted the previous design (although wary about the height) and nobody that currently lives in Chinatown could afford the cost of the new condos going up. They win with the Kensington development but not the Kingston.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

I think that was the powers that be's plan anyways. Extending downtown, not building a cornerstone to Chinatown.
 
Re: 120 Kingston, 29 Story Tower in Chinatown

JoeMail said:
...there will still be time to fight the real fight: to ensure that the new building is good. To ensure that it is porous enough for public access and beautiful enough for public admiration.
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Is Archstone or the building to replace Dainty Dot "porous enough for public access and beautiful enough for public admiration?"

If you think so, point taken.

If not, I'm not clear how you can claim a project to be a win without achieving the standards you've outlined.
 
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