Reasonable Transit Pitches

BostonUrbEx said:
LOL, no way. That's laughable to say there's an "competition". I mean, I understand you don't know, but if you knew how horrid the Lake Shore Limited was, you'd be laughing too.

It runs once in each direction a day. And it so unreliable that I'd be downright shocked if anyone used it regularly as a ride from Worcester to Boston. Not to mention the not-so-convenient times it does make those runs. It's definitely a long-distance traveling train that Amtrak provides. In no way is it suitable for a commuter.
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There's also the minor problem of Amtrak refusing to sell you a WOR-BOS ticket.

Come to think of it, it's bizarre that they won't sell WOR-BOS, but they'll do BOS-WOR...
 
BostonUrbEx said:
LOL, no way. That's laughable to say there's an "competition". I mean, I understand you don't know, but if you knew how horrid the Lake Shore Limited was, you'd be laughing too.

It runs once in each direction a day. And it so unreliable that I'd be downright shocked if anyone used it regularly as a ride from Worcester to Boston. Not to mention the not-so-convenient times it does make those runs. It's definitely a long-distance traveling train that Amtrak provides. In no way is it suitable for a commuter.
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Well, 60 MPH track, the horrible inside-Framingham bottlenecks, and held hostage on the entire route by CSX dispatchers who institutionally treat passenger trains as a second-class nuisance. If the T got its act together inside Worcester and Amtrak did the double-tracking and 80 MPH speed bump Springfield-east it gets a whole lot better even if Springfield-Albany is unimproved. They do plan to add a second round-trip after the Inlands restart. And, yes, everybody thinks CSX will sell the track east of Springfield just like Pan Am did last month from Springfield to Northfield on the relocated Vermonter. They want to scrape everything east of Albany off the books except the yards, save money on ops and maintenance, and reduce their tax burden. It'll be pricey because they always sell high, but within 5 years either the state or Amtrak is owning the B&A. At least east of Springfield, but possibly all the way to the state line.

West of Framingham the main thing holding back the speed bump is simply that CSX only maintains the switches to 60 MPH spec. It's already cab signaled from the western-most switch at the Framingham yard all the way to Albany, so some state of good repair work is all that's needed to +20 MPH that trip. East of Framingham...different and much more expensive story because every signal has to be ripped out and replaced whole.
 
Couldn't they achieve higher capacity at South Station with no expansion, simply by not wasting space with parked trains there?
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Dear god yes. 60 MPH speed limit, and the signal system to Framingham is unidirectional which means inbounds have to hold at Wellesley Farms if anything outbound is stopping at Yawkey-Auburndale. People would put up with getting lapped by cars on the Pike if the single-tracking and freight interference didn't put so many trains at a dead stop for 10 minutes at a time.
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Is the current construction at Yawkey addressing this signaling problem for that station?
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
They could, except they have to park the trains there because the yards are also at capacity.
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Yep. Southampton/Widett Circle can't hold a damn thing more, and it is technically Amtrak's space with the T getting leftovers. Takes an artful dispatching dance just to swing what they do now. Readville's also at-capacity, but at least the T's main yard hugging the Neponset has expansion space. Unfortunately it's going to take Amtrak throwing down the gauntlet and telling them to GTFO of Widett Circle before they do anything about it.
 
bigeman312 said:
Is the current construction at Yawkey addressing this signaling problem for that station?
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No. To make it better they have to rip everything out from Back Bay to Framingham because it's incapable of supporting cab signals and PTC in its current form.

Yawkey doesn't even do much for single-track dwell times because the 2nd platform just means all the outbounds that skip it will no longer skip it. Beacon Park double-tracking will provide some measurable relief, as will fixing the 3 Newton stops. Yawkey's relatively small potatoes overall.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
No. To make it better they have to rip everything out from Back Bay to Framingham because it's incapable of supporting cab signals and PTC in its current form.
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Is this as major of an undertaking time/money-wise as it sounds?
 
Is the track to the seaport being used for anything? I wonder if it could be possible to shove a few sets on there
 
bigeman312 said:
Is this as major of an undertaking time/money-wise as it sounds?
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Probably a $50M job. Requires re-trenching the signal wires to lay fiber cable, installing track circuits, putting in cab signal transponders, installing new wayside signals at switches/interlockings (not needed elsewhere because the cab signals manage the intermediate blocks), and decommissioning the old wayside signals. But they don't have a choice. The PTC deadline is 12/31/2015 and it's an Amtrak route. The vengeance would be swift and immediate if they screwed over Amtrak. At least it's one they're likely to get some fed funding for, abd at least it's only to Framingham because everything west to Albany has full cab signals. But at the molasses rate the Haverhill and Fitchburg stimulus projects are going I'm not sure if they got an appropriation this fall that they'd finish it in time for the PTC deadline. Their behavior and utter disengagement from that vice grip of a deadline is baffling, truly baffling. EVERY other east coast commuter rail agency from Virginia to Shore Line East in CT is on-target for the deadline, and the T isn't even planning. They cut cab signals from the Fitchburg Line signal replacement project because of the stupid cost overruns on South Acton and Littleton stations.
 
davem said:
Is the track to the seaport being used for anything? I wonder if it could be possible to shove a few sets on there
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The T uses the small yard by Haul Rd. to assemble track panels for other construction projects, but it's currently only configured to be accessible from the Old Colony main south of there because that's where CSX last serviced it from. So there's no way to stage anything there without pulling a reverse move that blocks the Old Colony for 5 minutes at a time.

The project to reopen the port access would do a bunch of crossover work so it's accessible straight from the Fairmount, but that's Massport's funding responsibility and they probably aren't going to be ready to proceed here for another 5 years or so.
 
F-Line, you mentioned a Tremont Street Subway earlier in the Urban Ring thread and that got me thinking...

Is something like a trade in of the 43 ever going to be doable? Something like a Green/Silver LRT in a tunnel that goes like this?
 
Why not build the tunnel along Washington Street to Dudley? The Tremont Street route you show is too close to the Orange Line, duplicating service.
 
Charlie_mta said:
Why not build the tunnel along Washington Street to Dudley? The Tremont Street route you show is too close to the Orange Line, duplicating service.
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Separate issues. The Washington Street tunnel / Silver Line LRT is obviously going to get done first - the Tremont Subway would be in addition to, not in place of. Primarily, it's meant to eliminate the #43 bus.
 
Charlie_mta said:
The Tremont Street route you show is too close to the Orange Line, duplicating service.
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Agreed. There's a reason why it isn't in the top 50 bus lines in ridership. Between the Orange Line and if the Washington Street subway were to be built, the most useful part of this line would be the Roxbury Crossing to Brigham Circle stretch.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
F-Line, you mentioned a Tremont Street Subway earlier in the Urban Ring thread and that got me thinking...

Is something like a trade in of the 43 ever going to be doable? Something like a Green/Silver LRT in a tunnel that goes like this?
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That was the last line that used that tunnel, in 1961. Looped at Lenox St. The 43 retained its old trolley route number after bustitution. Until 1956 it went further to Egleston Sq.
 
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