Reasonable Transit Pitches

Brattle Loop

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I think it'd be much easier to run a single bus through the Sumner and Callahan. No need to keep stations open, no interruptions to maintenance, etc.
For shuttling between Aquarium and Maverick, yes, I would tend to agree. The only downside I can see is that a new service, as opposed to the 100-plus-year service pattern using the tunnel, would need to be well-publicized to be used, more so than if the existing subway simply kept running (even if in significantly reduced form as a shuttle). Hardly a deal-breaker, though, but it would require a certain amount of follow-through that the MBTA hasn't always managed.
 

Stlin

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I think it'd be much easier to run a single bus through the Sumner and Callahan. No need to keep stations open, no interruptions to maintenance, etc.
The other thing is those tunnels are not exactly set up for easy access from city streets on either end. In both directions you'd have to go via Haymarket. In the midnight hours I don't exactly think that's a deal breaker, but at that point you might as well start at State or Park st if not Haymarket itself.
 

donkeybutlers

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What is the possibility of (preferably a couple) infill stations on the Braintree branch of the red line in Neponset? there are three stations in about the same distance on the Ashmont side of the split but nothing in this area (which includes one of the few 24 hour social venues in the city). Map of potential stop locations in order of preference:
Screen Shot 2021-08-30 at 1.40.42 PM.png
 

KCasiglio

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The other thing is those tunnels are not exactly set up for easy access from city streets on either end. In both directions you'd have to go via Haymarket. In the midnight hours I don't exactly think that's a deal breaker, but at that point you might as well start at State or Park st if not Haymarket itself.
For an outbound run I think Aquarium -> State -> Govt Center -> Haymarket --------> Maverick would do a good job of covering the places people are used to picking up the blue line (plus Haymarket because you're passing it anyway) and makes straightforward sense to people.

Given how many hospitality/service sector workers live in East Boston/Revere I think this would do well. As a piece of anecdata (for all that's worth) I worked many years bartending and know A LOT of people are ubering home to East Boston/Revere at the end of the night.
 

Brattle Loop

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What is the possibility of (preferably a couple) infill stations on the Braintree branch of the red line in Neponset? there are three stations in about the same distance on the Ashmont side of the split but nothing in this area (which includes one of the few 24 hour social venues in the city). Map of potential stop locations in order of preference: View attachment 16119
It's hard to tell from Google Maps, and I can't quite find the (admittedly LRT) specifications for ROW width for the GLX+CR that someone (F-Line?) posted in another thread (the problem being I don't remember which thread), so I can't say definitively but it's quite possible that the ROW is simply not wide enough in that stretch to add stations (particularly where the Old Colony is double tracked, which cannot be reduced given the already-problematic amount of single tracking that line has to deal with).
 

vanshnookenraggen

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The only one of those former station locations which really makes sense is Pope's Hill (in the middle.) Luckily there is plenty of space. I'd guess that there might not be the ridership today to justify it BUT there is a damn fine amount of redevelopment potential right there along Morressey Blvd. If there is anyone proactive at the city then TOD might have a good chance.
 

AndrewOnTheMBTA

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I think this has been discussed a bit recently on this thread: what would be the next large extension ** for the T lines? Outside of the Red-Blue connector? I appreciate following some ambitious large projects in the Los Angeles Metro system - albeit that metro area is a completely different animal and the LA metro is a completely different system - like the impressive K/Crenshaw line opening next year and the Purple line extension. Some other projects our there like those make me wonder and kind of dream as a transit geek and think - what in our lifetime would we see that's "reasonable"? If there's anything that should be done soon that's crazy or "God mode", I can open it up in those threads too.
 

AndrewOnTheMBTA

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I'd hope it would be BLX to Lynn, but it's probably too early to say since Red-Blue isn't even supposed to be finished until 2029/2030.
I don't think I'm "asking for too much" or being unrealistic, but the Lynn extension is overdue and not a crazy pitch - I think it's a high density corridor which relies a lot on buses, possibly with more ridership demand per mile than the GLX at times. Are there any studies or estimates on projected ridership for a BLX?
 

Brattle Loop

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I don't think I'm "asking for too much" or being unrealistic, but the Lynn extension is overdue and not a crazy pitch - I think it's a high density corridor which relies a lot on buses, possibly with more ridership demand per mile than the GLX at times. Are there any studies or estimates on projected ridership for a BLX?
Good question about studies, as I recall from a couple of years back the legislature told massDOT to study it, but if they did I must have missed the report.

BLX to Lynn is definitely not a Crazy Transit Pitch. It's got political support in the area, and clearly-defined options for ROW to use for the extension. It would also open up the opportunity to significantly improve North Shore bus service by removing the need for the distended loop down to Wonderland (or Boston) from the Lynn garage, meaning the whole network fed out of the garage could be optimized to take advantage of the rapid transit frequencies out of Lynn (which is why the sometimes-proposed cheaper alternative of more-frequent CR service is less ideal, it would never reach the same frequency of service as Blue would). Sadly even the blatantly-obvious transit pitches around here tend to take forever to get traction, if they get built at all. (Grumbles about the by-design-hobbled South Coast Rail somehow moving forward while Red-Blue and BLX are ignored.)
 

The EGE

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The most likely rail rapid transit extensions are the Blue Line extensions discussed above, and some relatively easy/cheap projects:
  • Orange Line to Roslindale: frees up a lot of buses, and can be done without major CR disruptions
  • Green Line to Needham Heights: already studied, though it probably needs to wait for the Type 10s to increase subway capacity
  • E Branch extension to Hyde Square: serves the part of the Arborway Line furthest from the Orange Line. Easy to do once Huntington Avenue rebuild adds accessible stops and maybe transit lanes.
  • GLX part 2 (Route 16) and 3 (Porter): Somerville and Medford are going to keep pushing for these. The only tricky part is the tunnel at Porter; you might see a partial extension to Spring Hill in the interim.
  • Green Line branch to Nubian: this would be pushing it on subway capacity, but Washington Street desperately needs reliable high-capacity transit.
After that, you start getting into projects that haven't been official proposals for a long time, or that were killed during planning. Orange to Roslindale + Green to Needham Junction is the most likely; Red to Arlington Heights, Orange to Reading, Blue to Kenmore, a rail Urban Ring, and some sort of SL or GL tunnel to South Station round out the usual suspects. All of them would be more expensive and require a lot more political will; I can't seen any of them happening before 2040 even in the most optimistic scenario.

Ultimately, a lot of the capacity you can wring out of the urban core in the next few decades is going to be buses. Dialing up the frequencies to acceptable levels (requires new garages), BRT projects like Columbus Avenue, etc. Blue Hill Avenue and the SL spurs to Everett, North Station, and Kendall are official near-term projects; medium-term, building out the rapid networks in Roxbury-Dorchester-Mattapan and Chelsea-Everett-Revere-Malden can do a lot of good.

Additionally, NSRL and commuter rail electrification will act almost as an additional core subway line. Getting 15-minute frequencies on the inside-128 portions of Worcester, Fitchburg, Fairmount, and Newburyport/Rockport will vastly increase the amount of the metro area with walk-up frequency, and the combined frequencies through the downtown section will be equivalent to a subway line.
 

Blackbird

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On foot or on a bicycle late at night, getting across Boston Harbor is literally impossible. Water taxi service ends at 8 PM. Calling a ride-share vehicle or a cab late at night is extremely expensive and most likely includes a toll surcharge. It is far easier to get from Government Center to Harvard on foot or bicycle than it is to get from Government Center to Maverick.
Might as well make go the extra stop to run Aquarium<->Airport?
 

bakgwailo

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And give an alternate route back downtown to where there are at least cabs for anyone who gets stuck at Logan wicked late. Seems like a good idea to me.
Yeah. I also would think framing it as the airport shuttle might make it a bit more politically feasible/supportable. Would that even allow MassPort to set in and help with funding?
 

Brattle Loop

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Yeah. I also would think framing it as the airport shuttle might make it a bit more politically feasible/supportable. Would that even allow MassPort to set in and help with funding?
I think there's FAA/USDOT hoops to jump through for using airport funds for things like that, though, that said, they clearly got permission to fun the free inbound Silver Line runs from the terminals, so I doubt it's impossible.
 

bakgwailo

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I think there's FAA/USDOT hoops to jump through for using airport funds for things like that, though, that said, they clearly got permission to fun the free inbound Silver Line runs from the terminals, so I doubt it's impossible.
Kind of what I was thinking. Plus all the various shuttles. Might be worth a shot to try at least. It really would be a pretty big benefit to Logan if it had a late-night T connection into the city.
 

roy_mustang76

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Kind of what I was thinking. Plus all the various shuttles. Might be worth a shot to try at least. It really would be a pretty big benefit to Logan if it had a late-night T connection into the city.
This is beyond reasonable. Which is probably why it won't happen :cautious:

Considering that the nearest crossover on the downtown side is probably GC? Does it make sense to either a) run the shuttle GC - Airport or b) run it single-track Aquarium - Airport? I'm thinking single-track is probably the easiest way to get a foot in the door, as it's cheaper and the travel time from Aquarium to Airport is only like 4 min anyway. Really no need to use more than one trainset a night.
 

Riverside

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Returning to the topic of "business class on the commuter rail" (as discussed back on page 93 etc), I learned from yesterday's Miles In Transit video that the CapeFlyer added a "first class" to the trainset. To my eyes, amenities aside, the biggest difference is the new seats. If there ever is going to be a business class on the commuter rail, I imagine it'll look something like that.

I wonder what that coach (with the refitted seats) will be used for now that the season is over.
 

DominusNovus

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So, this has probably already been discussed plenty of times - with F-List explaining why its a bad idea. But I’ll ask anyway: could we extend service south from Foxboro, down to Mansfield and maybe as far south as Providence?
 

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