Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

CSTH said:
No.

32074204103_4c38eec350_b.jpg
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Given that this was designed for the old elevated Central Artery, would it be the same for the new Central Artery?

Also, will the redevelopment of the USPS site at South Station accommodate a new tunnel beneath it?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

^ mistaken first "given." That diagram is from the design process of the CAT we built, and the CAT was built to accommodate exactly the alignments you see in the diagram. The path is fixed. The only wiggle room is for what we do within that alignment (2 to 4 tracks), how many portals tie into which lines, and how /where the stations go.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Charlie_mta said:
Also, will the redevelopment of the USPS site at South Station accommodate a new tunnel beneath it?
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Yes, all the development in the areas around the proposed tunnel are being vetted to ensure right-of-ways are kept clear. Most of the tunnel/station is actually out under Dorchester Avenue.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I think it's telling that even in this sort of NSRL study, they don't address the fact that the NSRL is necessary to RUN MORE TRAINS. The executive summary mentions the complexity and lack of efficiency of stub-end stations, but doesn't follow through on what that means for frequency of service.

$6b to connect Portland to the NEC and help north-side commuters get to BOS and BBY is not exactly convincing to people who aren't immersed in the details of this project.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

If you eliminate the Central Station and keep it at 2 tracks then it does lower the cost. Not all lines will need to be through run, especially coming from the south. If the tunnels are built far enough underground they should be pretty cheap to bore.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Specifically:
2 tracks = $3.8b (in 1 tunnel with 2 stations: NS & SS)
4 tracks = $5.8b (in 2 tunnel with 3 stations: NS CS & SS)

HKS' Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca1yTUf7mnc

BeeLine said:
New Harvard N/S link study reflects a lower cost. $3.8 to $5.8 billion.
https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/...d-study-north-south-rail-link-would-cost.html
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Here are direct links to HKS (no paywall)
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/researc...oston-commuter-rail-connection-gets-new-price

Related Press Release about student team:
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers...a-cost-estimate-for-the-north-south-rail-link
 
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Cool. Nice to see a fresh estimate.

Also agree that the full 'business case' should also consider the various dimensions of the value it creates (using alon's recent commonwealth article as a template) and also needs to consider the cost/benefit of various alternatives - not just no build/ status quo but also ssx and various rt capacity expansion projects - tl;dr it's also about the roi, not just the cost (aka investment)
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Love it.

Question: Why does the video make it look as though the route goes direct (as the crow flies) from North Station to South Station when it would actually follow the route of the tunnel? Or am I missing something.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

This is all just a student project...

JohnAKeith said:
Love it.

Question: Why does the video make it look as though the route goes direct (as the crow flies) from North Station to South Station when it would actually follow the route of the tunnel? Or am I missing something.
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Because it's a silly little video. It's not to be taken literally
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Seth Moulton is crafty. He realized that he could quickly get a Joe Public-friendly analysis done for free by asking students to do it.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I'd love it if this could be done at these prices as it would give NYC a reason to address its insane construction costs. But the reverse is true also; Boston isn't that dissimilar from NYC when it comes to large scale projects blowing up in cost. There is a lot of real world issues that these students don't have a clue about that would raise costs so we need to talk this with a grain of salt.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Total layman question: would there be any point in doing a 4 track tunnel with no new station?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

vanshnookenraggen said:
There is a lot of real world issues that these students don't have a clue about that would raise costs so we need to talk this with a grain of salt.
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I'm sure they looked into the design and engineering of the tunnels and had engineers on their team, but to my understanding none of the official authors of the white paper have engineering backgrounds. They're all Kennedy School public policy students, so there could be some oversight regarding the complex tunnel approaches and descents. I'm not doubting they had civil engineers consulting with them in the process, and they did cite similar projects, but IIRC, f-line said the most expensive parts of NSRL are the two ends of the tunnel(s) not underneath the CAT; there is a lot of engineering and design associated with the South Station Under approach, (and the North approach too) so I hope that was all well-considered in this.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

So where do the trains go?

(Image from CA/T design)

gwred04.jpg


And, I know you've all gone over this multiple times but for the uneducated, would the tunnel be limited to certain types of locomotives - can diesel run there?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

JohnAKeith said:
So where do the trains go?

(Image from CA/T design)

gwred04.jpg
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About 250 meters east of that intersection, under Dorchester Ave / Fort Point Channel.

JohnAKeith said:
And, I know you've all gone over this multiple times but for the uneducated, would the tunnel be limited to certain types of locomotives - can diesel run there?
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Electric only.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

bigpicture7 said:
Seth Moulton is crafty. He realized that he could quickly get a Joe Public-friendly analysis done for free by asking students to do it.
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This is meant to influence the paid for study. I think if we can get a contractor to actually contractually commit to these prices then it would be a no-brainer.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

vanshnookenraggen said:
If you eliminate the Central Station and keep it at 2 tracks then it does lower the cost. Not all lines will need to be through run, especially coming from the south. If the tunnels are built far enough underground they should be pretty cheap to bore.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the cost of the North-South Rail Link supposed to be kept low due to the fact the cement exterior walls of the current MA-I93 tunnel extend down to bedrock? This was supposed to create a natrually forming (pocket) area inbetween those concrete walls that could be excavated out below the current roadway and all that needed to be completed is the rail area's ceiling and floor. To keep the road above sturdy and to lay the tracks upon.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

That's only for a fraction of the length of the route. At both the north and south ends there would be lengthy new tunnels, including under the Charles River and along and under the Fort Point Channel.
 
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