Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

bigpicture7 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the electrification requirement also mean that large stretches of the existing commuter rail network would also need to be electrified to take full advantage of NSRL? I used to live next to the Haverhill line, for example, and that definitely wasn't electrified. I am making this assumption based on locomotive usage...
But then again perhaps there are diesel/electric convertibles that could share mixed electrified/non-electrified track networks? If the latter, then is it reasonable to do locomotive fleet replacements along a timescale compatible with NSRL completion?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

NJ Transit uses dual mode loco's on lines where they run on overhead catenary on their "main" lines, and switch to diesel power when they get to the branch lines where the catenary lines don't exist. It would solve the problem of not having to electrify the entire commuter rail network quite nicely, or at least provide a solution to buy the commuter rail network the years needed to electrify everything.

2000


That said, these dual modes cost more than your typical diesel powered or catenary powered locomotive, so it might be better just to bite the bullet and start a full changeover.

(For a video of the changeover of the overhead to diesel:
https://youtu.be/dUI19vdvSOU)
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

That is very deep. From what I've heard the Central Station has been dropped to save money. Stations mined that deep would easily cost $1 billion so dropping a station makes sense.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

fattony said:
The depth is mind boggling. That is why many folks see inclined moving walkways and escalators to be decent solutions to distributing people from the underground stations to distant locations. It isn't like you just hop off the BL and onto the CR. It will be a massive elevator or a dizzying series of escalators. You might as well use those escalators to traverse some distance in an east/west fashion and not just straight up/down.
Click to expand...

Well, Blue according to the map is already halfway there, but I see what you mean.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

WormtownNative said:
That said, these dual modes cost more than your typical diesel powered or catenary powered locomotive, so it might be better just to bite the bullet and start a full changeover.

(For a video of the changeover of the overhead to diesel:
https://youtu.be/dUI19vdvSOU)
Click to expand...

Interesting. So the key question is: was the cost of either dual-mode locomotive procurement or pervasive electrified rail changeover included in the Harvard Kennedy School's analysis of the cost of NSRL?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

bigpicture7 said:
Interesting. So the key question is: was the cost of either dual-mode locomotive procurement or pervasive electrified rail changeover included in the Harvard Kennedy School's analysis of the cost of NSRL?
Click to expand...
I think HKS did just the core tunnel. But the changeover in rolling stock can happen in out-year equipment replacement cycles...when diesels wear out, electrify another branch and buy electric replacements

Dual modes are still going to be too heavy. They work on NJT & MNRR because both have shallow stations (a few stories below the street) that the dual modes can work in. (For the new deep East Side Access under Grand Central, I think that will be 100% electric only)

Acelas will need a front and rear locomotive, and the commuter rail will likely need to be EMU (which, like the subway, has motors on at least half the axles)
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Is anyone going to tonight's MassDOT meeting about the NSRL?

MassDOT – North South Rail Link
Public Meeting
Tuesday, October 17, 2017
6:30 – 8:30 PM
Atlantic Wharf, Fort Point Room
290 Congress Street, Boston, MA (adjacent to BSA Space)

...MassDOT is undertaking a Feasibility Reassessment for the North South Rail Link Project to update the prior work and determine if further technical and financial analysis is warranted.​

More details:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/planning/Main/CurrentStudies/NorthSouthRailLink.aspx
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

elemenoh said:
Is anyone going to tonight's MassDOT meeting about the NSRL?

MassDOT – North South Rail Link
Public Meeting
Tuesday, October 17, 2017
6:30 – 8:30 PM
Atlantic Wharf, Fort Point Room
290 Congress Street, Boston, MA (adjacent to BSA Space)

...MassDOT is undertaking a Feasibility Reassessment for the North South Rail Link Project to update the prior work and determine if further technical and financial analysis is warranted.​

More details:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/planning/Main/CurrentStudies/NorthSouthRailLink.aspx
Click to expand...

I will be attending this.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I went. The meeting was fairly well-attended but there wasn't much to talk about, as the study is in relative infancy. On display were boards which were mostly taken from the last study in 2003, from whole cloth. All of it was pretty well documented and can be found on Transit Matters's social media accounts, as well as other usual suspects in attendance like Ari Ofsevit. Nothing surprising to report for anyone who's been following this thread. A few things of note from my perspective were:

-The working group is assuming for the sake of this study that the commuter rail would run dual-mode units (catenary in the tunnel and maybe through the inner suburbs, switching to diesel when things spread out) and eventually all electric, but made the deliberate choice to avoid fleet and systemwide electrification in the scope of this project.

-They are studying 9 potential variations, from no-build up through 4 tracks, 3 stations and minimum headways.

-Their modeling will not include South Coast rail because there's no funding vehicle for that yet so it's not "real", but will include SLX and GLX.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Urban Land Institute (ULI) featured this story about their work on the North-South Rail Link.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

dshoost88 said:
Urban Land Institute (ULI) featured this story about their work on the North-South Rail Link.
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding that, ds. What jumps out at me is that everyone on that panel was from outside of Boston and it seems crystal clear to them, looking at the situation objectively and dispassionately as third parties, that the NSRL must be built if Boston is going to be competitive in the future. If Baker wants to sit around and scratch his ass, he is guaranteeing Boston's return to being a backwater.

.

.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I felt torn on whether to ask this here or in the Amazon thread, but is anyone looking at the interplay between the possibility of Amazon at Suffolk Downs and the NSRL? Assuming the NSRL gets built w a Blue Line connection at the proposed Union Station, every single commuter rail line would have a 2 seat trip to Amazon.

Which means we probably should make sure to build Union Station if we land Amazon and break ground on NSRL (and the Red Blue connector, but thats another topic).
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

FYI a little random, found these in an early-90s big dig-era planning doc on archive.org...

39174682272_322f89a32c_o.jpg


39174682392_79474a3941_o.jpg


39174682502_6a6498a30c_o.jpg
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Nice find, although they definitely don't match the current plans.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Good stuff, bad politicians
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

The first and second drawings do make use of the alleged deep slurry walls that were supposedly placed below the Big Dig tunnel when it was built.

Pretty cool stuff. Too bad it will probably never be built.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

elemenoh said:
Is anyone going to tonight's MassDOT meeting about the NSRL?

MassDOT – North South Rail Link
Public Meeting
Tuesday, October 17, 2017
6:30 – 8:30 PM
Atlantic Wharf, Fort Point Room
290 Congress Street, Boston, MA (adjacent to BSA Space)

...MassDOT is undertaking a Feasibility Reassessment for the North South Rail Link Project to update the prior work and determine if further technical and financial analysis is warranted.​

More details:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/planning/Main/CurrentStudies/NorthSouthRailLink.aspx
Click to expand...



Has the bitterly cold weather gone away yet? Hah!!

They should think about putting in some type of tram system similar to the ones used at some of the airports, instead of digging up the streets to put in a tunnel.

Less of a hassle, most of the work is above ground & no more Big-Dig-style headaches!! :eek:
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

I thought the tunnel walls are already in place.... They just need to dig out the fill and build. i have no clue what that will look like at street level end to end.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

odurandina said:
I thought the tunnel walls are already in place.... They just need to dig out the fill and build. i have no clue what that will look like at street level end to end.
Click to expand...

A couple of concerns on that:

1. How deep were the external walls placed?

2. If beneath the Central Artery tunnel floor the soil is removed for a rail tunnel. what would support the existing Central Artery floor? I doubt it was built to stand alone without a lot of cross beams needing to be installed to support it over a new rail tunnel.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

odurandina said:
I thought the tunnel walls are already in place.... They just need to dig out the fill and build. i have no clue what that will look like at street level end to end.
Click to expand...

Extending the slurry walls deeper than the auto tunnels is not the same thing as having a real tunnel you can use.

It's like building a house with a foundation that goes down far enough to allow for a basement. A shovel and some determination won't get you a new basement.

At best, you'll have a space that's not connected to any entrance or exit, which has no utilities, no floor, no ventilation of any kind, and happens to be filled with an enormous amount of dirt.

On the upside, it's very unlikely to collapse on you while you try to address all of those other things I just mentioned.
 
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