Rose Kennedy Greenway

I don't share your confidence in the public, itchy. It hasn't minded proposing pointless parkspace, I don't see why it wouldn't fight to preserve it. I can't begin to imagine the "they're taking our park away!" furor that would unfold if a single foundation were poured where there's now grass. And no, they're not going to let cost overruns get in the way of their open space fanaticism, no matter how much they hate cost overruns. That's why people in CA always vote yes on any budget initiative for a new program and no on any that raises their taxes to fund it.

You might hear griping about the museum plots on the ramps, but that's a different story.

Probably the cheapest and most practical solution at this point is to seriously narrow the streets on either side. The fact that this isn't even being discussed outside this forum tells you a lot about the inertia this wasteland has created.
 
No, it means that we haven't yet created an effective lobby for that position. I suggest that WalkBoston is the first group that should be approached if we want to go in that direction.

An experiment that would cost the city almost nothing is to close one of the two side roads on certain weekends, converting the other one to two-way traffic. Maybe we should start with that?
 
I shouldn't have to lobby professional planners to come up with such an obvious solution to a park system everyone says is insufficiently connected to surrounding neighborhoods!

It should be obvious! It should be percolating as we speak!

An experiment that would cost the city almost nothing is to close one of the two side roads on certain weekends, converting the other one to two-way traffic. Maybe we should start with that?
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There's no one in the Financial District on weekends; they're not about to flock there so they can walk in the road as opposed to the park. There needs to be a more radical change than this; you don't need to experiment to know this is the right idea.
 
You can't expect even the best ideas to happen by themselves if nobody is advocating for them. If this is something we care about, we need to organize for it.
 
czsz said:
I can't begin to imagine the "they're taking our park away!" furor that would unfold if a single foundation were poured where there's now grass.
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The reason I think we may still see development on the grass is that many of these plots weren't supposed to be parkland to begin with, and they still aren't *officially* supposed to be fallow grassy strips. The plans called for, and for all anyone knows still more or less call for, various pie-in-the-sky construction schemes: the concert hall, Boston museum, YMCA, Harbor Islands pavilion, garden-under-glass, etc.

The sense I get from newspaper editorials (a better place than ArchBoston to gauge how most people feel) is that people are a bit fed up with the crappy grassy strips we've ended up with. Of course, if this were in the Back Bay or another res area, there'd be lots of NIMBY opposition. Although the North End has been sensitive about the parks that it did get, since the rest of the strips are essentially in no-man's land, I think there'd be fewer howls against any proposed development. Especially if a) that development offers amenities and b) if most people see this primarily as a tourist area, they probably wouldn't mind seeing some of the parcels that were supposed to hold the performing arts center, e.g., being given over to residential if that residential offered them a place to have a drink or do some shopping.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my thinking.

czsz said:
Probably the cheapest and most practical solution at this point is to seriously narrow the streets on either side.
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Agree.

czsz said:
The fact that this isn't even being discussed outside this forum tells you a lot about the inertia this wasteland has created.
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Also agree. ... It'll probably stay largely as it is till Menino goes in 5 or 10 years. But when he does go, I bet his successor (assuming he's not another local machine pol) will have ambitions to prove himself early on -- and this is a perfect opportunity to do so.
 
Keep in mind, though, that the YMCA, New Center (concert hall), and Boston Museum were intended for ramp parcels -- which are NOT primarily "grassy strips" now. These are expensive to build on and probably require public subsidy for private development.
 
I saw this photo in a Boston photoset on skyscrapercity - I looked at it, puzzled, wondering what the hell I was looking at. Before I got oriented by the skyline, my first thought was "Oh, weird, this tourist wandered around those grassy fields behind Northeastern."

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Great discussion. One of the side roads should be closed. The other should be a trolley. I won't rest this case until a trolley runs from North Station to South Station and from there into the Silver Line tunnels (which the silly Silver Line vehicles have long since abandoned).

Some parcels should be built on. Buildings should not include Atrium Mall-like Boston Museums of Prefab History.
 
Where do you plan on sticking the tunnel to connect to the Silver Line tunnel? Last time I checked there was an underground highway in the way. Seems like it would just make sense to keep everything at street level anyway.
 
Shepard said:
Great discussion. One of the side roads should be closed. The other should be a trolley. I won't rest this case until a trolley runs from North Station to South Station and from there into the Silver Line tunnels (which the silly Silver Line vehicles have long since abandoned).

Some parcels should be built on. Buildings should not include Atrium Mall-like Boston Museums of Prefab History.
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I like the way you think, but I believe I've said that before.

I hadn't previously thought of dedicating an entire side to a surface tram, that's probably more efficient than a shared lane on either side.

Imagine, we're already talking about how to renovate a project that isn't even finished yet?
 
To get to the Silver Line tunnel, you'll need a new portal somewhere west of South Station, where the line's buses currently have a turnaround loop.
 
^^ Ron's right. All the promised buildings weren't on the current grass, but above the ramps, which are a problem (judging from the inability to cover normal sections of sunken Pike) that will not go away for decades. Even if that weren't the case, what lingers as pseudo-parkland for long enough will be embraced as if it were always supposed to be parkland.

Also agree. ... It'll probably stay largely as it is till Menino goes in 5 or 10 years. But when he does go, I bet his successor (assuming he's not another local machine pol) will have ambitions to prove himself early on -- and this is a perfect opportunity to do so.
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Sadly all his heretofore challengers have identified Menino with the developers (not incorrectly) and then indicated they would ally themselves with the neighborhood groups more zealously. That can only mean none of them will have the courage to cross the grass people, especially if it risks them being seen as selling out public parkland to (shudder) capitalists.

I can't believe this is one of the most highly praised parcels in the entire assemblage. The landscape architects who had any part in this travesty should be excommunicated from their profession.

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Catastrophe.

No further comment required.

I vividly recall the elevated highway, and I believe that in its present incarnation, THIS IS WORSE.
 
All the promised buildings weren't on the current grass, but above the ramps
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Most, but not all. The Garden Under Glass was to go on one or more of the 'Mass Hort' parcels between Rowes Wharf and South Station. The Harbor Island Pavilion was (and I think still is) intended for the parcel that connects Quincy Market to Christopher Columbus Park.
 
I remember the highway too, and don't miss it. The Greenway is not 'worse', but it is 'not enough better'. It is an unfinished and partially-blank slate that will develop more slowly than impatient people like us would like.
 
kennedy said:
I like the way you think, but I believe I've said that before.
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That makes sense. I doubt I've said anything original on this forum.

As for the photo, when I saw it and realized what it was, I also became interested in the psychology behind it. This was a tourist who posted photos of many of the major sights. Why was this photo included? Was the Great Lawn seen as an attraction? A distinctive feature of the city?

Statler had posted the link to this photostream.

If anyone is a member of skyscraper, maybe it's worth asking?
 
No, please take the credit! I meant that I had agreed with your idea before, in the HarborTram thread (I think). Yours was definitely one of the more original ideas that has passed through the forum.
 
Shepard said:
That makes sense. I doubt I've said anything original on this forum.

As for the photo, when I saw it and realized what it was, I also became interested in the psychology behind it. This was a tourist who posted photos of many of the major sights. Why was this photo included? Was the Great Lawn seen as an attraction? A distinctive feature of the city?

Statler had posted the link to this photostream.

If anyone is a member of skyscraper, maybe it's worth asking?
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Given the provenance I'm willing to bet the photog thought it was a cool full-frontal of the skyline.
 
Fixed...

kennedy said:
I like the way you think, which is something I believe I've said before - about how you think, that is. Please don't misunderstand, and don't let your social paranoia get the best of you. This actually might be a compliment.
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Umm... thanks?
 
I don't know about social paranoia, but it was a compliment, so you're welcome.
 
Ron Newman said:
I remember the highway too, and don't miss it. The Greenway is not 'worse', but it is 'not enough better'. It is an unfinished and partially-blank slate that will develop more slowly than impatient people like us would like.
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Well said Ron. Sometimes the myopia on this board overwhelms . . .
 
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