Rose Kennedy Greenway

[ablarc]

Agree with both of the last comments.

 

[TheBostonBoy]

Ya, as do I.
I mean sure, it's fun to look at trees in a park! :wink:
But I think that part of building a park, is putting art and sculptures, and memorials in them too. Putting these things together with the park just
makes it that much more beautiful, and really intertwines art with nature.
So IMO they def. need to put in some sculptures and memorials. I am glad that these organizations want to, so they should let em!

 

[ablarc]

What a horrible fiasco. Our grand Greenway is nothing more than green trickle running between six lanes of traffic. Its a glorified median strip and does none of the things it was promised to do-- i.e. knit neighborhoods back together, provide Boston with a "world-class public space", etc. And what a fantastic view it affords of all those buildings that were mutilated to make way for the elevated expressway. They look like the ruins of a war zone. Lovely.

 

[Charlie_mta]

That is indeed sad. The Greenway in these photos looks like a sweeping freeway corridor through the middle of the city. Maybe they can hold car races on it. To me, that's about all it looks like it would be good for.

Build on the damn thing, and reestablish some connectivity between the parts of the city now so severely severed.

 

[ablarc]

Right on, Charlie.

 

[Lrfox]

C'mon- give it a little more of a chance. It looks like a concrete disaster now, but once more plantings are in place and grass is laid out, our Greenway may be a little more...Green. this type of stuff takes time and it's still taking form. i'm not impressed at all, but i think there's still a chance for it to improve from it's current form.


That being said, i agree with Charlie_mta about developing some of the parcels. the majority should be park, but developing a few could connect separated areas (the North End needing to be reconnected the most).


Time will tell...

 

[ablarc]

C'mon- give it a little more of a chance. It looks like a concrete disaster now, but once more plantings are in place and grass is laid out, our Greenway may be a little more...Green. this type of stuff takes time and it's still taking form. i'm not impressed at all, but i think there's still a chance for it to improve from it's current form.

Without a doubt this is true.

I think it's also fair to say that when it's lush, fully grown out, lined with monuments and much improved in design ... it will still be the wrong thing. The very concept is bad urban design. In fact it's anti-urban. It's the loving perpetuation of a scar.

Keep that wound open at all cost.

Fundamentally wrong.

That being said, i agree with Charlie_mta about developing some of the parcels. the majority should be park, but developing a few could connect separated areas (the North End needing to be reconnected the most).

Minority, not majority. Reverse the ratio.

Time will tell...

Time always does. Time told us about the wisdom of our Vietnam policy, our choice of George W. bush, and it's telling us about our building of car-based Suburbia and global warming.

Trick is to know WAY before time tells.

When folks do, it's called wisdom; when they don't, it's called folly.

As you say ... time will tell.

I'd prefer a better story.

 

[statler]

^^ As I said in the other thread, I'm sure a lot of people on this board (maybe yourself even?) would have called the plans for Post Office Sq. 'fundamentally wrong', 'suburban' or 'anti-urban' and it is now being called

[...]perhaps the city's best square.

Patience young Skywalker...

 

[ablarc]

^^ As I said in the other thread, I'm sure a lot of people on this board (maybe yourself even?) would have called the plans for Post Office Sq. 'fundamentally wrong', 'suburban' or 'anti-urban' and it is now being called

[...]perhaps the city's best square.

Funny you should bring that one up. I used to take design studios to the roof of the Winthrop-Square-type garage that stood there. I'd invite them to admire Boston's finest square-to-be defined by the impressive streetwalls of a diverse collection of distinguished edifices.

Few, if any, saw the potential at the time; not a murmur in the press anywhere.

I told them it would take four to six levels of underground parking.

I then assigned them to design the park and the parking.

(Seem to recall a certain distinguished journalist on one of the juries, and a fella from the BRA )

Do you supose word got around ...?




(Some chance I have slides from that studio; I'll scratch around. Though it may take months to find and convert these to digital, it might make an interesting glimpse into the Stone Age --or at least provide a laugh.)



Truth is, it's not so hard to critique an unbuilt proposal or one that's partially built. You don't have to wait till the trees have grown into their full splendor --any more than you have to see the rustbucket GTO fully restored before you venture an opinion on its potential.

Patience be damned.

Fix it instead --before we complacently settle into acceptance of something that, after all, is BETTER THAN AN ELEVATED HIGHWAY.

 

[statler]

Schooled again...

My apologies...

Edit: Did you include a subway stop in your original proposal?

 

[stellarfun]

Comm Ave circa 1940

Comm Ave circa 1903

 

[Ron Newman]

Looks to me like those are not the same location. The first one is Comm. Ave in the heart of the Back Bay, but the second one looks like Kenmore Square.

 

[statler]

^^ The caption on the website reads:

1903. Junc't., Commonwealth Ave. and Beacon Street, Boston, Mass.. E. Chickering & Co.

But they are both Comm Av. So I think the point stands. Comm Av wasn't aways what we think of it today. (It was really just a glorified median strip - still is actually)

This doesn't excuse the Greenway of course. It is still the wrong project for the wrong place, but it could still surprise us and become a great asset to the city. Cities are funny like that. The can some times adapt places to thier best use over time. It would be nice if we got right on the first shot, but be optimistic, errors can be corrected and sometimes mistakes lead to wonderful results.

 

[stellarfun]

^^ The caption on the website reads:

1903. Junc't., Commonwealth Ave. and Beacon Street, Boston, Mass.. E. Chickering & Co.

So you are both right. It's looking at Comm Av from Kenmore Sq.

Given the modest size of the trees by 1940, it would seem that Comm Ave was not very green for 20 or more years after the first photo was taken.
___________________________________________

For those seeking green on the Greenway, here are two photos from last Saturday of 'Fidelity' Park. There is Big Dig banner hanging on a fence on the Greenway opposite the Fidelity Park, and which illustrates what is being built on the Greenway parcels in that area. The banner shows 'Fidelity' Park to be a flat expanse of tinted pavers, i.e., colored asphalt. (I have a picture but I need to reduce the size from 1.92 megs.)

 

[bosman]

Thanks for the pics, stellarfun.

I really just can't get over just how poorly planned this "Fidelity Park" is. All the reasons why have already been stated, so I won't bother writing them out again. I just think that this had so much potential. Fidelity should have brought in an expert to design the park.

As for the Greenway, I think that in 15-20 years, it will look much better than it will at the initial opening. I just think that this was so hyped up to begin with that anything less than perfect will be considered a failure.

 

[ablarc]

Did you include a subway stop in your original proposal?

Yeah, but it was purely hypothetical, since there was no line to put it on.

So I made up a line. It went as follows:

South Station (connect to Red Line and commuter rail)
Post Office Square
Market (connect by conveyor to Blue and Orange Lines at State and Green Line at Haymarket)
North End (Hanover/Prince), then deep-bore to:
Navy Yard/Constitution
Bunker Hill (elevator to Monument Square)
North Charlestown


A little urban line, another pipedream.

 

[stellarfun]

Fidelity Park June 3, 2007.

I'm guessing it will be open by July 4. The cobbles don't look to be too hard on the feet. The trees are doing better than some of the trees on the new Greenway.

 

[Joe_Schmoe]

stellerfun, did it look to you like water could seep through the cobblestones? Otherwise I don't see how the trees are going to get any water. Usually they leave a circle of earth around planted trees so that they can get some water and have room to grow. These poke right up through those small spaces and are going to die unless some of those stones are eventually removed to provide space for growth.

 

[LeTaureau]

^Not to mention that once the trees get larger, the roots will push up the stones and buckle the pavement. Is sticking trees in hard-scape some fashionable modern trend? This isn't the only park that I've noticed it in.

 

[stellarfun]

stellerfun, did it look to you like water could seep through the cobblestones? Otherwise I don't see how the trees are going to get any water. Usually they leave a circle of earth around planted trees so that they can get some water and have room to grow. These poke right up through those small spaces and are going to die unless some of those stones are eventually removed to provide space for growth.

Yes. From what I could see, the stones are laid on a bed of gray stone dust, There does/did not appear to be any concrete underlayment, except perhaps the sidewalk along Atlantic Ave. None of the trees or shrubbery looked at all stressed. Turner is the contractor, and I never knew them to do parks. But I would guess this was not a low-bid job, and perhaps Fidelity has a historical working relationship with Turner. (Turner is building Russia Wharf.)