SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center | Seaport

Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Sicilian said:
Yes.

There are just under 6,000 residential units built, approved and under way in the Seaport today. That number includes 1,250 units existing in Fort Point.

These numbers are somewhat meaningless in the context of Seaport's scale. It's like considering the impact of Chinatown housing on the North End.

http://fortpointer.com/images/seaport_TOD.jpg

What matters is density. Residents per acre.

Disappointed (but not surprised based on the passage of time) that there's little discussion of Seaport planning history. Views regarding the critical importance of residential density were registered during that period by nearly all engaged urban planners (i.e. Coopers Robertson, Urban Strategies, Thompson Design Partners, BSA Seaport Focus Team, etc.).

Disappointed (but not surprised based on the passage of time) that there's little awareness here of the years of (profit-centric) tinkering with Seaport Master Plans (via PDA amendments at Fan Pier, Pier 4, Seaport Square, etc.) which have moved the district toward being a hodgepodge of uses, with little consideration of the residential density and amenities necessary to see a neighborhood evolve.

And when I use the phrase "profit-centric" above that's directed at BPDA/BRA for failing to meet the agency's own (stated) responsibility toward "value capture" during PDA approvals of large Master Plans at Pier 4, Seaport Square and Fan Pier. State and federal public investment in the Seaport exceeded $8 billion, and that raised land values. Upwards of $500M in profit has been siphoned from the Seaport in the past decade, in the flipping of permits without putting a shovel in the ground. Yet it was too onerous on landowners for BPDA to impose housing demands, call for basic neighborhood amenities and a foundation of civic uses?

What's also staggering is Massport's failure to consider walk-to-work housing as a component of effective Seaport transit management. Massport has created office space for over 25,000 workers (e.g. commuters) and only 1,000 housing units.

As for whighlander's memory of Southie political pressure, we're a decade past the era when that was a major factor. Will Seaport Square, approved in 2010 with 2,500 units, see 2,500 units? Will the Fort Point 100 Acres Plan, approved in 2006, ever see 2,500-5,000 residential units given the number of potshots that have been taken at the Plan since its approval?

Apologies in advance for my attitude. I've been raising these issues along with others for 20 years.
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We don't really do master planning in Boston.

We do "feel good" planning outreach that is routinely overridden by commercial interests in the PDA process. Happens all over the city! Not just Seaport.
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

With about 1,600 units between parcel M (yes I believe it will be built) & B+C (almost complete), that leaves another 900 units to reach 2,500 units. 1/3 of those are in the two Watermark buildings.

So, yes, I would expect at least 600 units over the remaining parcels is not a stretch. Possibly more if the market stays in Boston as it should. It's a matter of the developer making "enough" money as the market slows.

There is obviously enough demand for housing in Boston as has been made abundantly clear across this forum, but we've all seen the developers clamp up due to diminishing returns. This is where the profiteering that Sicilian mentions really starts to hurt. The land that was so affordable when McCourt first sold it off (at a hefty profit) has skyrocketed. What could have easily been more affordable housing, is now pushed to "luxe" level units to recoup investment. Or, it becomes much more lucrative office space, or flipped again to a bigger developer with deeper pockets, who can afford to land bank until the market swings up again (to build or sell yet again.)

The upward spiral has a limit, but it apparently hasn't been reached yet. Someone will ultimately be left holding the fiscal hot potato, and it will burn their wallets. Maybe when someone finally defaults, some land can end up back on the blocks at a "reasonable" price when auctioned by the bank or city. And, we can start the whole process all over again.
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Sicilian said:
Yes.

There are just under 6,000 residential units built, approved and under way in the Seaport today. That number includes 1,250 units existing in Fort Point.


What's also staggering is Massport's failure to consider walk-to-work housing as a component of effective Seaport transit management. Massport has created office space for over 25,000 workers (e.g. commuters) and only 1,000 housing units.

As for whighlander's memory of Southie political pressure, we're a decade past the era when that was a major factor. Will Seaport Square, approved in 2010 with 2,500 units, see 2,500 units? Will the Fort Point 100 Acres Plan, approved in 2006, ever see 2,500-5,000 residential units given the number of potshots that have been taken at the Plan since its approval?

Apologies in advance for my attitude. I've been raising these issues along with others for 20 years.
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Sicilian -- and there are future sites a plenty for thousands of more units relatively near by. they may not all be in the immediate Fan Pier / Seaport Square footprint -- but so what.

One of Boston's major claims is that it's the Walkable / Walking City. Indeed a quite high percentage of commuting in Boston is by foot*1 often crossing neighborhood boundaries [e.g. people actually walk from Charlestown to the Financial District].

*1 from recent article in Money
http://time.com/money/4244782/top-cities-walking-biking-to-work-2016/
CITY PERCENT OF COMMUTERS WHO WALK OR BIKE TO WORK
Boston 16.7%
Washington, D.C. 16.7%
San Francisco 13.9%
Seattle 12.9%
Portland 12.1%
New York 11.2%
Philadelphia 10.6%
Minneapolis 10.4%
Chicago 8.1%
Baltimore 7.7%
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

This project is going full force this morning. Lots of work already being done...Any idea how quickly it will open?
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

thanks for posting that Whigh. real vs fake cities in America exposed.......

CITY PERCENT OF COMMUTERS WHO WALK OR BIKE TO WORK

Boston 16.7%
Washington, D.C. 16.7%
San Francisco 13.9%
Seattle 12.9%
Portland 12.1%
New York 11.2%
Philadelphia 10.6%
Minneapolis 10.4%
Chicago 8.1%


Baltimore 7.7%
Denver 6.7
Atlanta 5.4%
Cleveland 5.4%
Los Angeles 4.7%
Miami 4.6%
Austin 4.1%
San Diego 3.8%
Columbus 3.5%
San Jose 2.7%
Phoenix 2.6%
Houston 2.5%
Ciudad Kansas 2.4%
San Antonio 2.2%
Arlington 2.0%
Jacksonville 1.8%
Ft Worth 1.3%
Dallas/Ft Worth ~0.3%
Dallas ~0.2%
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

datadyne007 said:
If you enclose a parking garage, you have to fully sprinkler it.
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If the exposed sides of the parking garage were covered by screening, similiar to what MassPort did at the new garage addition (which looks very good) at Logan, would it still have to have sprinklers?
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

atlantaden said:
If the exposed sides of the parking garage were covered by screening, similiar to what MassPort did at the new garage addition (which looks very good) at Logan, would it still have to have sprinklers?
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MPA Fire granted an exemption for sprinklers for the West Garage Expansion (the garage was actually classed as a high rise, regardless of it being open or not) given that there was a water curtain protecting the Hilton bridge (which is a horizontal exit), all ancillary rooms were sprinklered, standpipes were provided in each stair & there were hose connections no more than 100' apart in the garage.

In short, it is up to the AHJ. MPA Fire is willing to bend a bit. Other AHJ's might not be. It would also come down to how much free area there is on the covering for smoke to dissipate through because remember, sprinklers are for providing a safe means of egress for people. They are not for saving buildings or cars, though they often do that as well by extinguishing small fires.

Edit: AHJ = Authority Having Jurisdiction
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

whighlander said:
Sicilian -- and there are future sites a plenty for thousands of more units relatively near by. they may not all be in the immediate Fan Pier / Seaport Square footprint -- but so what.
(continues)
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Can you identify sites available for "thousands" of units relatively near by" Fan Pier / Seaport Square?

As mentioned, the remaining lots at Seaport Square may not see the 550 units that were widely publicized when the project was announced as creating a "new neighborhood." See any civic facilities evolving? Recreational parks? Dog runs outside of Q Park?

I mentioned Fort Point 100 Acres (USPS/Gillette lots) and noted the numerous recent potshots compromising the 33% housing objective of that Plan. For the record, these Fort Point lots are 1/2 mile from Fan Pier. If you want to identify the Seaport as a "neighborhood," it's inappropriate to suggest Fort Point will contribute to Fan Pier having the character of a "neighborhood." You have to consider Fan Pier density, or at least the density within a reasonable radius of Fan Pier.

If you don't want to discuss residential density by looking at hard data (e.g. residents per acre), your vague assertions about Seaport sites that will host "thousands of more units relatively near by" must be sufficient for this discussion. That's why I don't weigh in here often.
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Wait, you're doubting we see 550 units in all of the unbuilt L3-L6 parcels? Why? Its explicitly referred to as residential in every doc I can find on the BRA website, and the site is larger than M1/M2 - which despite hosting mixed use, rather than all residential, still has 800 units. And this isn't even looking at parcels D and G, themselves a similar lot size to the 800 units of One Seaport Sq (for all I know they're designated office but its not like any of the naysayers know either).
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Fan Pier has been built, more or less, as permitted. I would guess any changes moving forward would increase residential (Parcel E).
Pier 4 I also dont believe has changed its 3 building's uses all that much.
Seaport Sq was permitted for just over 2800 residential units.
Every PDA amendment for Seaport Square has increased residential (except for the hotels not having residential too). This has come at the cost of retail and also civic, that was initially planned.


You can take issue the civic space that was planned has decreased due to developer profits (but D and G had 10K each and they havent been developed yet), but the green space has all been built and the residential has increased.
B&C was 720 units and is now under construction for 830
K was 65 units and its now (occupied) at 350
M was 665 and is now going to be 750
SS alone is on pace for over 3000 units.

the 1/3 rez, 1/3 office, 1/3 retail/civic is now about 40/40/20 for the area.

And yes, not all will be occupied by 2019, but is the argument really that SB Waterfront isnt becoming a neighborhood fast enough? From 0 to about 3000 units (fan pier, pier 4, SS alone) within about 5 years (2014 to 2019)? with more to come after that from those sites and others (Waterside place and other massport parcels) not even included in that total.
 
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Last de-railing the thread on my part and I'll let someone else have the last word, but I would say the area can't become a residential neighborhood anytime soon, if ever. A 1,600 car garage kinda ruins the ambiance, for example, wouldn't you say? I love the Seaport for what it is but there aren't too many of us.

The estimated population of 02210, which includes the "Seaport" and Fort Point Channel, was 1,658 people in 2011 and 2,179 people in 2015, so a ~500 person increase in just 5 years, not insignificant. And, since then, several large buildings have been completed. Still, adding those in, plus those approved and/or under construction, you're a long way from 10,000, which is probably a good estimate of what's needed in order for "ancillary" services to be provided.

Yes, we have our CVS, now. Thank god they sell fruit! How many residents are needed to open something other than a "gourmet market"? (Perhaps more than we have now, if rumors about Bee's Knees are accurate ...)

Back to the garage ...
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Sicilian said:
Can you identify sites available for "thousands" of units relatively near by" Fan Pier / Seaport Square?

As mentioned, the remaining lots at Seaport Square may not see the 550 units that were widely publicized when the project was announced as creating a "new neighborhood." See any civic facilities evolving? Recreational parks? Dog runs outside of Q Park?

I mentioned Fort Point 100 Acres (USPS/Gillette lots) and noted the numerous recent potshots compromising the 33% housing objective of that Plan. For the record, these Fort Point lots are 1/2 mile from Fan Pier. If you want to identify the Seaport as a "neighborhood," it's inappropriate to suggest Fort Point will contribute to Fan Pier having the character of a "neighborhood." You have to consider Fan Pier density, or at least the density within a reasonable radius of Fan Pier.

If you don't want to discuss residential density by looking at hard data (e.g. residents per acre), your vague assertions about Seaport sites that will host "thousands of more units relatively near by" must be sufficient for this discussion. That's why I don't weigh in here often.
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Sicilian -- I guess it depends on your definition of Relatively Near

I would argue that there are plenty of people [though I can't give you a reference] who walk for more than 0.5 mile and probably quite few who daily walk over 1 mile each way as pedestrian commuters. A radius of a mile would allow for a lot of development where thousands of units could easily be accommodated and still be "relatively near"

By the way -- Jeff Immelt is kind of a fitness buff [and he encourages the GE HQ staff to be so also]-- I'm not sure that he walks from his place next to the Public Garden to Farnsworth St., everyday -- but I'm sure that he does walk it from time to time
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Pile driving galore going on right now...
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Was the I-90 tunnel built with any provisions for development on top, similar to the I-93 tunnel by North Station?
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

I will never not be amazed that concrete piles can be pile-driven without shattering.
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Scalziand said:
I will never not be amazed that concrete piles can be pile-driven without shattering.
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I haven't been on or near this site during the process, but the last time I was on a site with steel sheets being driven, the driving was done more via vibration than by the old-fashioned wham bam driving. They inject water all along the sides of the piles and the driver is basically a giant vibrator, though they often do add in some mild vertical jolts. You can imagine all the off-color jokes in bad taste on the job site. I'm not on such sites often, so I have no idea what percentage of pile-driving is being done via vibration these days, but I think it's not a rarely used method.

The combination of vibrations plus liquids cause liquefaction, just like what happens in an earthquake except limited to the zone immediately around and just under the pile. The thing being driven just eases its way in, you can be standing a good ten yards away and feel the earth shaking. Watching a pile get vibrated into the earth is truly a slick as shit thing to witness, I encourage checking it out if you ever get the chance.

Again, though, I don't know if that's how they're doing these. In fact, I see in one picture that there's a very long augur in play. They may be drilling out holes for these piles, which would explain how they get them in without shattering them - they're pre-drilling holes for them.
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

they are drilling core samples on the adjacent parcel D2 across the highway
 
Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Enjoy those pics while you can before the mods get to them.
 
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