Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: South Boston Seaport

I proposed a cheap but probably effective link between the Green Line and Silver Line tunnel here, which could, I believe, be constructed tomorrow.

Curious to hear opinions about why the City Point route failed - was it because the Silver Line bus was scarcely an improvement over existing bus routes? Or is there actually that little demand for service to South Station from that neighborhood?
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Shepard said:
Curious to hear opinions about why the City Point route failed - was it because the Silver Line bus was scarcely an improvement over existing bus routes? Or is there actually that little demand for service to South Station from that neighborhood?
Click to expand...

There is plenty of demand for service from City Point to South Station. Problem was, the Silver Line took a left on E First, and only went as far as the bus terminal across from the park. It didn't really service the City Point neighborhood. The 7 bus is far more convenient, as it makes a full loop through City Point before trucking down Summer St to South Station.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

It failed because it just stayed on E. 1st St. and looped around the block P St.--E. Broadway--Farragut--E. 1st. No bus in the neighborhood takes that limited a routing missing most of the population. They found out the hard way that it's not enough to go to the bus terminal, it actually has to have some places to go on the loopback. That it missed everything on E. Broadway made it less useful than the locals. Schedule stunk, too, so the frequencies weren't useful enough to be a draw.

What they were counting on was Phase III reinstating the old City Point Green Line branch that existed until 1953 and going downtown, not a quick shuttle to South Station. They could try it again with a better routing, but it really isn't a fit for limited-stop BRT when it has to loop around the whole neighborhood to serve it well.

I do think Urban Ring to the Transitway is the kind of heavy-use route that'd make good use of the Silver Line. You don't have rail options on that quadrant, so lane-prioritized express buses really are the only way to traverse the distance effectively. Would pretty much fit the Ring route exactly as laid out, which right now self-defeatingly misses the Transitway and doesn't take advantage of any existing modes. The project would stand a better chance if they pooled resources and actually tied the south-half ring into the SL, and then the north-half ring into the Green Line where it's all on rail rights of way. Nobody is seriously going to ride the Ring end-to-end one-seat in a loop. The whole point is to get radially from the edges to downtown transfers effectively, and that's going to funnel all the ridership along north/south halves or on quadrants of the Ring with SS, Dudley, Kenmore, and Lechmere being the places everybody transfers to/from downtown.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I just put a complaint about lack of public transportation in on the city's Citizens' Connect iPhone app, so it should be fixed by tomorrow or Monday at the latest.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

So they axed City Point because the route sucked? The map offered no details as to the routing so they could have easily changed it, really.

I always figured it ran down Summer/L St, then banged a left down E Broadway, looped somewhere near the park at Pleasure Bay and went back. That would have been much better. Who the hell chose E 1st?

Or perhaps better, after going down E Broadway, take a right down O St, a right down E 8th, and then a right back up L St.

Honestly, there's DOZENS of possibilities! What a joke! I thought the volume sucked because the people didn't want it, but the routing just sucked.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

There was huge neighborhood opposition to the SL buses running down Broadway, and to be honest, I can't blame them. There are already ~half dozen routes running down Broadway, some as often as every 10 minutes.

Also, I don't think there was anyway those buses could navigate the smaller one way streets. The regular city buses have a tough enough time. The only option would have been to run down to Farragut and take the left back up to First.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Why not express down Pappas Way, down the short few blocks on Dorchester St and terminate at a Kenmore-like bus terminal at the Broadway intersection? This may not be City Point per se, but as a commercial nexus of the neighborhood it would probably attract the most ridership.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Silver Line was all about PoliticalCorrectness and Politics

When the plnning for the replacement for the Old Orage Line Elevated was underway the decision was to move it to the Right of Way of the cancelled I-95 SW Expressway

This would remove the main service from Washington St.

To remeady this politically the T promissed a "One Seat Ride" -aka the SilverLine from Dudley to Downtown, South Station and Logan

Obviously with the exception of a very small number of people who live in the Dudley area and work at Logan -- this was pure Boondoggle

At the same time once Massport dropped its plan for central ticketing hall and then later an electric HOV the rest of the stupid decisions (moving the Blue Line station the wrong way, Silver Line routing) folowed inexorably

the major errors:
1) Plans based on politics rather than economics
2) lack of coordination between Massport, MBTA, Turnpike CA/T, BRA

The Line should have gone from Back Bay to South Station (following raiil right of way) Loop throgugh the Seapot / Innovation District one branch to Logan (under central parking) one branch to UMass with stop in Southy near to City Pt / Pleasure Bay

But this would have been viewed as further shifting things away from Roxhurry and hence was a political non-starter

However had this been done:
Travelers from / To Logan could have a one-seat ride from Back Bay Hotels to BECX continuing to Logan or the Cruise Terminal
city Dwellers could get to Pleasure Bay wthout taking a bus
UMass Boston would linkt to the Innovation District
everyone would have a good connection to supplement and back-up Green Line backbone
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Here's an opinion piece by Natalie Jacobson from Boston magazine.

What does she mean, "Since the overhead rails came down a few years ago, Boston got its waterfront back"?

The New Northern Avenue
BY Natalie Jacobson, Boston magazine

I had to look up to a street sign to know where I was for a moment, as I did not recognize the street.

Northern Avenue: home to Jimmy’s and Anthony’s Pier 4 and then the No Name.

But on this night, nothing looked familiar.

Jimmy’s is long gone, and in its place is the new Legal Seafood, Legal Harborside, three floors, with three different venues of waterfront dining. I found the food and service to be excellent.

I look forward to eating my way up this street of a hundred choices: a Mexican bistro, a Texas steakhouse, Jerry Remy’s sports bar, the Renaissance Hotel. I’m sure I missed a few.

This appears to be the new Boston. Delayed developments reportedly now are back on track. The harbor islands are enjoying new attention. The harbor itself has come a long way from the day G.W. Bush made hay with Michael Dukakis on his own waterfront. Since the overhead rails came down a few years ago, Boston got its waterfront back.

And for it, Boston is all the richer.
Click to expand...

http://blogs.bostonmagazine.com/boston_daily/2011/07/15/northern-avenue/
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Clearly talking figuratively about how the Seaport could have had an elevated but those high hopes were killed a few years ago with the Silver Line.

lol jk idk
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

" This appears to be the new Boston. Delayed developments reportedly now are back on track. The harbor islands are enjoying new attention. The harbor itself has come a long way from the day G.W. Bush made hay with Michael Dukakis on his own waterfront. Since the overhead rails came down a few years ago, Boston got its waterfront back. "

This quote is totally screwed-up:
1) there was an elevated track along Altalantic Ave with a stop at South Station -- but that came down before Nat was born

2) the area around Fan Pier was all rails -- some of it on briidges -- but it was all freight

3) the famous Bush with DuTaxus debate was George HW Bush (aka Bush 41)
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

A bit off topic -- here is some on the Altantic Ave El -- when there were rails on the waterfront:

from the wikipedia " -- an all-elevated line which would run along Atlantic Ave. At the time Atlantic Ave was the heart of the fishing and maritime industries in Boston and home to ferry terminals. Both the Washington St Subway and Atlantic Ave El would service trains from the Main Line El (the elevated section of the old Orange Line, now demolished).

When the Atlantic Avenue El first opened, shortly after the Main Line in 1901, the Main Line went through the Tremont Street Subway , changing between elevated and subway at the Pleasant Street Incline and the Causeway Street Incline. The low level trolley platforms were altered with temporary high-level platforms to allow for elevated trains to unload passengers. Where the original Washington Street Elevated (the south part of the Main Line) turned west from Washington Street onto Castle Street (now Herald Street), it had a full three-way junction (Tower D) with the Atlantic Avenue El, which began by heading east between Motte Street (also part of Herald Street) and the New Haven Railroad tracks."

so it was a branch of today's Ornge LIne

continuing -- "The El turned north after a block onto Harrison Avenue, continuing to Beach Street, where it turned east for its first station, Beach Street, on the block just east of Harrison Street. The El turned north on Atlantic Avenue, with its second station, South Station, located just north of East Street, with transfers to the South Station intercity and commuter terminal, and, beginning in 1916, to the Cambridge-Dorchester Tunnel (now the Red Line). Next was Rowes Wharf at Broad Street and High Street, with a transfer to the Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn Railroad via a ferry from Rowe's Wharf to East Boston.

Continuing along Atlantic Avenue, the next station, at State Street, was named State Street and had, beginning in 1904, a transfer to the East Boston Tunnel (now the Blue Line). After merging with Commercial Street, Battery Street Station, just north of Battery Street, provided access to Boston's North End. Just south of Battery Street, on the east side, was the Boston Elevated Railway's Lincoln Wharf Power Station. At Keany Square, the Atlantic Avenue Elevated ended at the Charlestown Elevated, the north part of the Main Line, at a full three-way junction (Tower C), with the Charlestown El heading west on Causeway Street and north over the Charlestown Bridge.' -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Avenue_Elevated

So it provided a link from Downtown to South Station and back to North Station connecting to what became the Blue Line in the middle

But the Mollases Flood of 1919 was the begining of its end - and the last of it was taken down in 1942 to provide scrap steel for WWII

So the full line only existed for 20 years and it stopped entirely less than 40 years after it opened

Unfortunate as it woould be useful today especially since an elevated line could easibly continue on to the Innovation / Seaport distriict and beyond
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

whighlander said:
Silver Line was all about PoliticalCorrectness and Politics
Click to expand...

The "Piers Transitway"and the Orange Line "Washington Street Service Corridor Replacement Project" were two completely separate projects until the state realized it could only get federal funding for one project. Political correctness wasn't part of anything. Corrupt Roxbury pols accepting the shit sandwich, which screwed their constituents, erstwhile putting on smiling faces that they were doing something for the 'community' is more like it.

The Washington Street Silver Line to Roxbury should be an extension of the Green Line from the sealed Tremont Street portal, through Dudley, and down Blue Hill Avenue instead of the 28 bus.

The South Station to the Airport and parts of South Boston branches should have been the Silver Line as was originally intended by the "Piers Transitway". Running the SL from North to South Station along the RKG, as a N&S connector would be a good idea as well.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

I wrote most of that Wikipedia entry :)

What really killed the Atlantic Ave El was the loss of the maritime and fishing industries in Boston in the early 1920s. Boston experienced a much longer economic depression that lasted a generation and was the impedes for the New Boston of the 1960s.

The El was the first to go because it didn't service that many people and it was considered a blight. The Green Line was first proposed as an elevated line until Bostonites realized what an elevated line would do to Tremont St (there is a famous propaganda altered photo showing Termont St with an El somewhere online, just too lazy to find it now).

Fun urban myth, one of the justifications for building the Central Artery along Atlantic Ave was that planners figured the area was used to elevated structures and it wouldn't further hurt property values.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Good article -- always wanted to meet (even if virtually) a wikipedia author

But you have fallen into a major urban myth about Boston in the 1920's

Actually Boston boomed from the 1880's until the Great Depression although the mix of what it did was changing as finance and nonmaritime comerce took over from the traditional maritime commerce

In the 1920's some of the iconic major buildings before the Post WW II era (no specific order):

1) Park Plaza -- nee Statler - 1927
2) original Ritz Carlton Hotel -- 1927
3) Salada Tea Building --1927
4) New England Telephone Bowdoin sq. --1930
5) Paramount Theatre -- 1930 -1932
6) 2nd national bank -- aka 75 federal St. the Zigaurat -- 1929
7) batterymarch Building - aka Wyndam Boston Hotel -- 1928
8) Western Union Building (218 - 228 High St at Congress) -- 1930
9) United Shoe machinery now the landmark -- 1928
10) federal reserve bank -- now the langham Hotel -- 1922

Doesn't sound like a depressed economy with all that building going on

7)


vanshnookenraggen said:
I wrote most of that Wikipedia entry :)

What really killed the Atlantic Ave El was the loss of the maritime and fishing industries in Boston in the early 1920s. Boston experienced a much longer economic depression that lasted a generation and was the impedes for the New Boston of the 1960s.

The El was the first to go because it didn't service that many people and it was considered a blight. The Green Line was first proposed as an elevated line until Bostonites realized what an elevated line would do to Tremont St (there is a famous propaganda altered photo showing Termont St with an El somewhere online, just too lazy to find it now).

Fun urban myth, one of the justifications for building the Central Artery along Atlantic Ave was that planners figured the area was used to elevated structures and it wouldn't further hurt property values.
Click to expand...
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Don't forget the ubiquitous multifamily courtyard apartment buildings built throughout the city's streetcar routes in the 1920s.

Loosing the port traffic was a serious blow. But it took a few other economic and political factors to scuttle Boston going into the Great Depression and to fail to climbing out of it until the 1980s.

Boston had a 60 year golden age followed by a 60 year dark age, which we've never fully recovered from.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Lurker said:
Don't forget the ubiquitous multifamily courtyard apartment buildings built throughout the city's streetcar routes in the 1920s.

Loosing the port traffic was a serious blow. But it took a few other economic and political factors to scuttle Boston going into the Great Depression and to fail to climbing out of it until the 1980s.

Boston had a 60 year golden age followed by a 60 year dark age, which we've never fully recovered from.
Click to expand...

Not quite:

from the Completion of the first 4 lane version of Rt-128 the Hub just spread out

rt-128 became a "second core" replacing the lost economic activity in Boston /Cambridge with a distributed uber-level of activity -- aka "America's Technology Highway"

This continued to spread up I-93 (Raytheon), up RT-3 (DEC), Out Rt-2 and around on I-495 (Raytheon & DEC) until more than 80% of the roughly 5+Million people and 30+% of the economic activity ofthe Greater Boston Region is outside the traditional cores of Boston / Cambridge/ Somerville/Quincy

With its resurgence in the past 20 years Kendal sq. Cambridge began to become the Hub of the Hub -- now things are shifting again as Shire displaces Raytheon's HQ complex in Lexington and Vertex moves to the Boston Fan Pier
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Lurker said:
Don't forget the ubiquitous multifamily courtyard apartment buildings built throughout the city's streetcar routes in the 1920s.
Click to expand...

I love these buildings and a while ago (when I still lived in Boston) I wanted to do a photo book of them.
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Lot of them predated the 20's he heyday of the streetcar suburbs was before the beginning of the serious impact of cars

much of East Cambridge's 3 decker and such were from circa 1890 to early 1900's as many of them were plumbed for gas light not wired, many of the rest were wired for DC

My Aunt and Uncle owned a 6 family just of Cambridge St. near Leachmere. It was a redo as the first house was a 3 story build circa 1900 with the 2nd half away from the street built in the yard during the 1910 - 1920 period -- I've hacked on the walls and ceilings doing some redo's and both the pipes and knob and tube wiring was there as was chimney in the kitchens for the original coal-fired stoves

This all happened cira the Leachmere Viaduct and the extension of the Green Line Elevated to Leachmere 1910, as well as:
the building of the Charles River Dam, creation of the Basin and Craigie bridge 1910

a bit earlier 1890 the Mass Ave aka Harvard aka MIT Bridge was built 1890 with trolley tracks and rebuilt in 1906 -- "Holey Big Digs Batman" because the original bridge was declared unsafe

in the middle between Mass Ave and Cambridge St. bridges the west Boston -- aka Longfellow was built 1900 - 1906 with trolley tracks -- the Red Line (Harvard sq. to Park St or Haaahhhhvd to Paaaak St) was installed in 1912

so the building boom in East Cambridge should be approximately bounded by 1890 (Mass ave trolley) to a bit after the Dam and the Green Line Viaduct

as my father was born in Cambridge in 1911 and lived in Somerville for the next few years and they were a first gen immigrant family arriving in the 1890's from what was then Russia (now Poland) -- this is self consistent
 
Re: South Boston Seaport

Innovation District earns $50,000 arts grant
By Cara Bayles, Town Correspondent

The National Endowment for the Arts has awarded a $50,000 grant to projects that will incorporate artistic design into the new "Innovation District" on South Boston's waterfront.

The grant marks one of the first-ever federal “Our Town” grants, meant to encourage artistry in approximately 50 public planning projects across the nation.

In Boston, it focuses on the swath of waterfront property that was declared a neighborhood by Mayor Menino in January 2010, and is generally regarded as the future headquarters for Boston’s cutting-edge economy. Since then, the city has encouraged high tech companies to move to the location.

The Massachusetts College of Art and Design will spearhead the project. According to Anne Marie Stein, dean of professional and continuing education at MassArt, it is too early to tell what form the project will take.

“It’s a planning grant. By nature I think they are a little vague,” she said. But, by way of example, one of the ideas that have already materialized include projects that acknowledge that the Innovation District consists of a number of different neighborhoods, like Fort Point and an anticipated development called Seaport Square.

“We could use design to bring greater visibility to the character of their neighborhoods, and bring them together at the same time,” said Stein.

But nothing is set in stone yet. The school, along with its partners--the Design Industry Group of Massachusetts, the Design Museum, and city officials--will lead community meetings in the fall. The project will be informed by public input from the residents of the area, which includes Fort Point, a thriving artist community that has at times seemed sidelined by development plans for the area. Stein said working that population an exciting aspect of implementing the grant.

“We actually see that as one of the great benefits of doing this project. MassArt certainly has a deep relationship with Fort Point artists, and we’ve been talking to Midway Studios. We want to include this community,” she said. “This is a great way of expanding people’s perceptions of the different things art entails.”

E-mail Cara Bayles at carabayles@gmail.com.


http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news...trict_earns_arts.html?comments=all#readerComm
 
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