Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I respect your opinion and understand your point. Don't mean to come off that way.

BTW, I've never spent $180 at Fenway or even $100 per person on a meal. Just my way of doing things.

fattony said:
Whoa, judgmental! Inverted pretension is just as bad or worse than the conventional kind.

Enjoying fine dining is a perfectly acceptable leisure activity/hobby/indulgence. It is no different than spending $180 on a day at Fenway, or a theme park, or a fishing trip.

Try a $100+ meal at Craigie on Main or L'Espalier and when you are done eating your meal you'll eat your words.
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

No, no, that's the point we have to get across to people. Somehow the idea that new construction can be built on land that's valued at such a premium has become a rational one.

It's not some "real estate agent" saying this is so, it's cold hard fact.

We're talking one square mile of land in a city that's ~41 square miles big.

Expand your minds.

This is going to sound bad, but should we expect someone earning $50K to be able to live in a neighborhood that is walking distance to the heart of the city? It's tough to live in the Back Bay earning $50K per year, but people don't seem to be crying about it. I'm all for affordable housing in the city, but maybe new construction in a neighborhood that's a stone's throw from downtown isn't the best place for it.
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I don't come to that number. I only looked at one story but from Boston.com, it says the first $157 million phase will bring 260 units online and the second $50 million phase will add another 80 units.

That's 320 units at a cost of $207 million ... or $646,000 per unit.

That's very very high - I think the typical is $400,000-$500,000 unit, but maybe they're bigger than normal, more townhouses than normal, or a lot more common space than normal.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2011/05/charlesview_res.html

stellarfun said:
What kind of residential is Hynes building for $500 a sq ft?

Charlesview, including 243 underground parking spaces, costs about $300 a sq ft.

You don't need a new neighborhood school if your residential costs $500 a sq ft to build, because families with kids who need three+ bedroom condos can afford private school at those prices.
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Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

JohnAKeith, the first phase of Charlesview is subsidized, or almost nearly so, as it replaces one-for-one the existing number of Charlesview units, and adds a few.

Once the 8-acre, 350,000-square-foot site was cleared, construction of the 478,000-square-foot first phase of Charlesview could begin. It consists of all the infrastructure, underground parking and 15,000 square feet of retail space along with the 240 units of rental housing.
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http://www.construction-today.com/index.php/featured-content/754-john-moriarty-and-associates

The $150+ million includes the cost of the underground garage, but I am guessing the garage square footage is not part of the 478,000. If so, the housing cost, on a sq ft basis, would be less than $300.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

If memory serves me, maybe 6 or 7 years ago, there was a proposal to build a 500 or 600 unit (maybe more) apartment complex somewhere in this area, maybe by the Ft. Point Channel area but it never happened. It came close to happening then just fizzled out! Anyone have a better memory of this project? Was so needed for this area!
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I'm fine with an entirely upscale, expensive neighborhood being built, as long as there are enough units (which there are not). If nobody can afford to live there, unless they are making $65,000+, that's fine. With enough units, one of two things would happen:

1. (More likely) People who can afford to live in the Seaport move out of areas (or instead of areas) like Kenmore Square, Quincy, Jamaica Plain, Davis Square, etc. or empty nester baby boomers from wealthier suburbs. Lower occupancy rates in those areas will cause the rate of increase in prices in those neighborhoods to slow causing more people to move in from more affordable areas, if they can afford to - i.e. Charlestown, East Boston, Roslindale, Waltham, Dedham. Suddenly we have affordable units opening up without needing to be government subsidized.

2. (Less likely, but possible) The units don't sell because they are overpriced. The prices on the units drop. Suddenly we have affordable units opening up without needing to be government subsidized.

I understand the merits to government subsidized affordable housing in general, but why that seems to be the only way the Boston area wants to provide affordable housing is beyond me.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

bigeman312 said:
1. (More likely) People who can afford to live in the Seaport move out of areas (or instead of areas) like Kenmore Square, Quincy, Jamaica Plain, Davis Square, etc. or empty nester baby boomers from wealthier suburbs. Lower occupancy rates in those areas will cause the rate of increase in prices in those neighborhoods to slow causing more people to move in from more affordable areas, if they can afford to - i.e. Charlestown, East Boston, Roslindale, Waltham, Dedham. Suddenly we have affordable units opening up without needing to be government subsidized.
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I think the problem is that we have such a shortage that even if all the proposed units in the Seaport opened up tomorrow we would still be at high occupancy rates, high rents, not enough units.

I'm fine with the more expensive units because even if the price is high now, it doesn't mean the price will still be as high 10 years from now. Any development of residential units in the area is good development in my opinion.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I tend to agree with bigeman312. I've always thought if they could build enough new housing stock in places like the Seaport/Ft. Point and DTX/C-town, for example, prices in the above-named neighborhoods would really start to cool off. I'd wager that the hyper-conversion of every available single family home in Boston into 3 condo projects would slow as well.

Seems to me that the overriding issue is supply and demand. Where equilibrium is, who knows. The Boston solution of building affordable city-owned housing doesn't seem to help the middle class too much, which are the bulk of the folks who simply leave the city (and the state) when faced with minimal affordable housing options.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Good points Bigeman. It's a supply issue, not a price issue. Provide enough new units and prices will come down.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

This could be off-base, but this I think demonstrates when building superblocks is misguided. 22 stories isn't tall, but being constricted by lot-size a) narrows the profile, an b) encourages the developer to build up rather than out. I wish they'd divvy up the remaining Seaport parcels in a less "bloated" way.

Also, anyone else getting sick of "Innovation"? Surely they do realize that NOBODY but politicians and brown-nosing developers call the Seaport the "Innovation District"...
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Looks like The Victor standing up. That said, it's a pretty dusty part of the Seaport (and that's saying something) and 400+ housing units would be very welcome, especially considering the holding pattern Parcels B & C of Seaport Square (the resi. towers) appear to be in.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I'm confused. It doesn't say anything about an above ground parking garage. I thought that was a zoning requirement for multifamily towers in Boston.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Great news, and I love the shape. This will compliment the A St development well.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

I'm a little confused by that image. This is the site, correct?

8fCIRoS.jpg
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

mdd said:
I'm a little confused by that image. This is the site, correct?

8fCIRoS.jpg
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Parcel between the words, World Trade Center, Congress Street, and Mass Turnpike
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Someone needs to build around and disguise that awful vent building somehow.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

Reeks of ADD Inc, hahaha.
 
Re: Innovation Dist. / South Boston Seaport

datadyne007 said:
Reeks of ADD Inc, hahaha.
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Not sure what you mean by that. ADD Inc has done some fine work, including some of the most praised buildings on this forum - 319 A Street Rear and the new MassArt dorm.
 
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