Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

fattony said:
I went to the Seaport (Gather) last night for probably the first time in 6 months or a year. I'm pretty amazed by the transformation around courthouse station. Some of the new businesses looked awfully tacky and un-Bostonian (Scorpion Bar? blech!), but it is vibrant and urban. With a little more time (years, to be sure) this area will start to develop a patina and hopefully some of these generic businesses will be replaced or otherwise develop a little more authenticity. Seaport Blvd streetscape has a big transformation to go through yet, so I won't criticize it at this time. Northern Ave looked pretty nice with the lit trees.

Come spring and summer, this place is going to really bustle.
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The Seaport is more geared for upper working class, rich international students and the overall rich.

There is not one thing built for the average Bostonian to head down this area. There is not even real transit access to the area besides a BUS.
The city, the BRA, and the developers built Seaport soley for the RICH on the backs of the working class Massachusetts Taxpayer. You truly have been DUPED that the Average Bostonian is welcome here.

I would say at least the Greenway was built for everybody and is easy access from MBTA .
 
As a vet I enjoy the sept 11th iraq/afghan war memorial and the render for the building coming looks good. Theyre going to probably need to amend Syria into it somehow as many of us were rolled right into that theater from the previous ones or they could have a separate OIR memorial depending on how long that lasts.
 
TheRifleman said:
The Seaport is more geared for upper working class, rich international students and the overall rich.

There is not one thing built for the average Bostonian to head down this area. There is not even real transit access to the area besides a BUS.
The city, the BRA, and the developers built Seaport soley for the RICH on the backs of the working class Massachusetts Taxpayer. You truly have been DUPED that the Average Bostonian is welcome here.

I would say at least the Greenway was built for everybody and is easy access from MBTA .
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LOL what a statement. Private land developed by private developers to make a profit, not run a charity. What exactly would you like? Subsidized fast food restaurants? Art gallery (wait they already have one). A 10k sf public building (have that too).
 
falcon42 said:
LOL what a statement. Private land developed by private developers to make a profit, not run a charity. What exactly would you like? Subsidized fast food restaurants? Art gallery (wait they already have one). A 10k sf public building (have that too).
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Recruiting Vertex with tax incentives based on the public from Cambridge to lower the developers costs to build is not really private dealings here. You are involving the overall public to cut you a deal to build. What is the overall public receiving for generous tax deals?

Also the taxpayers dumped in over 100's of millions of tax dollars to build infrastructure costs for the developers. Again Fallon did not pony up private money to help build infrastructure. The taxpayers did.

You're out of your mind to believe that this all private investment dealings. The developers can't even give the public incentive anymore the taxpayers have to give the developers incentive now.

I could support tax deals if they benefitted the public but what is going on with the Seaport is an exchange of Developers enriching themselves to the max then ripping off the public only to create union jobs for votes for the politicians. The public did not really receive a benefit that the 100's of millions of dollars that was focused on the area.

(The public got SWINDLED here)
Ask yourself why a 2 family in the surrounding areas in Boston cost a million dollars to buy but the city of Boston giving tax deals to corporations to build on PRIME PROPERTY
Here is the list:
#1 Fallon (Vertex)
#2 GE
#3 Liberty Mutual
#4 JPM
#5 Millennium group
Should I go ON? Private Land & Private investment are you NUTS. The taxpayers have been subsidizing these corporations to build their wealth on the backs of the working class.
At least 100+Million in tax incentives up above for those billion dollar corps.
 
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BosDevelop said:
Monorails? "Flowing" ones no less? Is this a Simpsons episode? We're better than this.
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Yes lets discard functional transit due to a cartoon.

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We tore down almost all of our elevated trains. We only left the sections that couldn't come down because they are adjacent to river crossings. What on earth makes anyone think we'd put up new ones?
 
TheRifleman said:
Recruiting Vertex with tax incentives based on the public from Cambridge to lower the developers costs to build is not really private dealings here. You are involving the overall public to cut you a deal to build. What is the overall public receiving for generous tax deals?

Also the taxpayers dumped in over 100's of millions of tax dollars to build infrastructure costs for the developers. Again Fallon did not pony up private money to help build infrastructure. The taxpayers did.

You're out of your mind to believe that this all private investment dealings. The developers can't even give the public incentive anymore the taxpayers have to give the developers incentive now.

I could support tax deals if they benefitted the public but what is going on with the Seaport is an exchange of Developers enriching themselves to the max then ripping off the public only to create union jobs for votes for the politicians. The public did not really receive a benefit that the 100's of millions of dollars that was focused on the area.

(The public got SWINDLED here)
Ask yourself why a 2 family in the surrounding areas in Boston cost a million dollars to buy but the city of Boston giving tax deals to corporations to build on PRIME PROPERTY
Here is the list:
#1 Fallon (Vertex)
#2 GE
#3 Liberty Mutual
#4 JPM
#5 Millennium group
Should I go ON? Private Land & Private investment are you NUTS. The taxpayers have been subsidizing these corporations to build their wealth on the backs of the working class.
At least 100+Million in tax incentives up above for those billion dollar corps.
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This is a development forum. I understand that and I am as guilty as some others who get a little off-track here and there, getting into the economic, political, and socio political sides of things (though of course, all are intertwined). That being said, it's difficult to ignore when someone posts something so skewed and misinformed. So, I'm sorry, but here I go again..

"100's of millions of tax dollars to build infrastructure costs for the developers"
What are you talking about here specifically? Please exclude the Big Dig, the harbor clean up, and Williams tunnel since they benefited Boston as a whole and were not done because of Seaport developers. In fact, exclude the Silver Line through Seaport as well. That infrastructure allowed a route from South Station to the airport. The primary intermittent stops include the courthouse and trade center, both there long before the Seaport as we know it today. Yes, these projects were enablers, but to say that average Joe's 100's of millions of hard earned tax dollars went to infrastructure to developers is, in my opinion, ludicrous.

Tax Deals
You list a number of companies here, but I'll just address one (perhaps to the relief of some readers here). Vertex, #1 on your list. They were given tax incentives in 2011 to relocate. Why? To screw over taxpayers? I personally don't think so. Companies were generally still recovering from the recession. I imagine any plans for physical expansion and growth were secondary for a lot of them. But Vertex had potential with a new, but still risky blockbuster treatment approved for Hep C. They didn't need to move, but there was a pretty good deal on the table.

You need to understand the deal itself though. The incentive was based on building a $800 million facility AND employment targets over X years. Yes, Fallon got his $ as the developer, but you know who else did? Of course you do. Construction workers, contractors, sub contractors, every industry that benefits when a single house gets built X 1000. Vertex also needed to increase local employment by 500. They actually ended up falling short of this target by about 25% (because their blockbuster drug suddenly fizzled out due to a competitor) and a proportional amount of the incentive tied to employment was actually clawed back. All this is in the Globe by the way.

So the answer to your question of what public money went towards on the Vertex deal:
1) Jobs, taxable income on those jobs, and the economic multiplier effect therein,
2) Buildings that generate property tax revenue, and increasingly so due to value of the area driven by continued development.

It's only "subsidizing" as you define it if you continue to fail to see the other side of the equation.
 
All of that plus the repeated statements about how Boston stole vertex and screwed Cambridge in the deal.

After vertex moved out, we quickly filled their old custom built old HQ at 200 Sidney with 5 smaller companies who needed space and reused the old vertex infrastructure. We put 3 more companies (plus a small flour location) into 40 Erie, one of which I believe was MA's biggest ipo last year. 21 Erie is now also fully leased.

All those spaces are getting leased for higher rents than vertex was paying. The construction jobs were good for business, etc. Etc. Etc. Cambridge isn't hurting from losing vertex and/revenue. They are probably almost grateful to have room for 8 or 9 more Vertexes to grow the local economy even more.
 
I'm not against tax deals or incentives that need a jump start or create something that would really benefit the public. I'm against crony capitalism. All these developments in the city of Boston is nothing more than Crony Capitalism.

Vertex was a bad deal for the taxpayers. WHY? First off Vertex would have stayed in Cambridge so why is Boston giving away waterfront property?
Vertex Deal----
Almost 60 Million in tax dollars to pay for infrastructure costs;
#1 I didn't realize the taxpayers needed to persuade corporations to relocate from one part of Mass to another. I thought that was the Developer's job to convince a corporation to lease or build his building ?
#2 I thought in development the developers were supposed to offer sometype of incentive to the public to build these developments not just take from the public?
#3 Let the Seaport evolve naturally. Like I said do you see the majority of Boston Taxpayers in the area enjoying the restaurant nightlife, the area? No its mainly built out for RICH people.
#4 Concerning that VERTEX created construction jobs. It also created that those UNIONS delegates can't even think for themselves just vote for DEMOCRATS.

All that is going on with these tax deals or incentives.
#1 the Same developers, the same Unions and the same Political hacks all support this shit. The money is only getting washed around to the same groups of people. You have to understand this also creating higher prices for the everday working stiff with a family but this probably beyond your intelligence to understand. There is no more community in Boston. These areas are usually RICH, Students, International, or Upperworking class whitecollar, doctors. For such city that holds its values to hardworking blue collared class the political class sold you out.

Just look at these deals? Our City gave away the SEAPORT to corporations instead of promoting the land for the public.

At least make the corporations or the Developers pay for priceless land.

This is how I see it.
 
Look Ma! I can CAPITALIZE random WORDS in MY sentences TOO.

Our City gave away the SEAPORT to corporations instead of promoting the land for the public.
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What does this even mean? Unless you think the entire seaport should be a park then some corporation was going to develop it eventually no matter what.

Vertex acted as a catalyst for getting people to pay attention to the Seaport. I think getting Vertex in the Seaport was primarily about marketing the seaport as the up and coming STEM hot spot that would compete with Kendall. Before that it was a stodgy court house, Fidelity, John Hancock, the convention center and that stupid other building I can never remember.
 
Why the hell does Rifle have to pollute every forum with complaints about tax breaks from 5 years ago. He's like a broken record.
 
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meddlepal said:
Look Ma! I can CAPITALIZE random WORDS in MY sentences TOO.

What does this even mean? Unless you think the entire seaport should be a park then some corporation was going to develop it eventually no matter what.

.
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Plain and Simple. Let the markets work themselves out supply and demand. For the right price we would have seen plenty of investors take a risk to build their so called dream for what Boston Seaport should be.
Instead we only enriched a handful of Corporations on priceless land. Now look at Boston and the surrounding areas. YOU NEED TO BE A MILLIONAIRE to move to these areas or a tribe of 25 Immigrants to a 2 family home might cover it.

Our elected leaders should have only been focused on TRANSIT, and what works to make our city easy access.

Remember all taxpayers around this country had a stake in Boston since the FED and the STATE pony'ed up 15 Billion in tax dollars for so called BIG DIG. It's pretty fucked up when the FEDS had to step in that's how much corruption was coming out of Mass when that money was sloshing around.

YES.........Taxpayers money, and Politics for some reason influence the architecture in Boston. Don't blame me. Blame your so called leaders. That is why their is so much mention of this on this site. The entire Seaport layout and design, and architecture was based on Taxpayers incentives Not only that it was ALL OPEN SPACE it wasn't like we had to knock down above parking garages that make millions in profits.

Just look at what happened to Winthrop Garage original proposal. That's an old school swindle deal on prime property by a very well politically connected group of scum. The old switcheroo. Present something good for the public then build the cheapest and fastest development to unload on the public.

Millennium Partners---Priceless group of losers. Take some accountability in San Fran.
Bottomline: Nothing but bad deals from our politicans.
Liberty Mutual was one of the worst ones. Great Building but seriously bad deal.
Vertex--Bad deal
JPM---BAD deal
GE--BAD deal

Then the ex-Menino Adminstration has the balls to create BID tax? Lets create another tax on the successful businesses downtown to subsidize those developments so we can get more votes from the Unions.

Wake UP
 
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Nope, wrong. I'm not a millionaire and lived in Seaport for several years. How can you call GE a bad deal when it hasn't even played out yet?

Supply and demand? Did you miss econ class? The Seaport is the definition of supply and demand. The free market has determined the prices which developers are willing to pay. Sorry, if you want a socialistic market where we all get a piece of the pie, go somewhere else.
 
Not sure if these belong here but here's the steps leading from Farnsworth Street up to Seaport Sq.

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I'm interested to see how this looks in the summertime with grass and trees, etc.
 
I've seen this construction. Any idea what they are doing to the Pavillion?
 
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