Silver Line - Phase III / BRT in Boston

Re: Silver Line Phase III

So then it is safe to assume that we will never see either heavy rail or light rail take the place of the silver line?

Are there any studies/proposals/estimates as to how much it would cost to dig a tunnel under the existing SL route?

Back to something I originally had mentioned, it appears that Obama wants to spend billions on infrastructure projects in the U.S. Massachusetts is sure to see a portion as every state will. What projects could people see this money going towards?

On a side note, how much would it cost, or how feasible, would it be to burry the b line to Packards corner?
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I don't understand how one pantograph can "pass" another.

Youre right, fail on my side. Obviously a wire in the middle would be needed, like silver line way where buses can move around each other
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I'm sure all of the Bay Village people living in homes build on fill in the 1800s are overflowing with a renewed sense of confidence in the T this morning. :rolleyes:

Assurances that historical buildings and foundations will not be damaged are ringing a little hollow while staring at a 60-foot-long crack in the Old South Church.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I think the people of Bay Village have little to worry about; not only are the buildings built on landfill, but on stilts, too. Those aren't going anywhere.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

As Archboston notes above, the latest T "whoopsie" at the Old South related to Copley Station construction has further raised the worry level in Bay Village. The T's construction track record has been sadly consistent. Silver Line 2 boring led to cracked foundations at Russia Wharf. The Orange Line build in the '80s led to building condemnations and a twenty-year legal battle. It seems that anything requiring an ounce of engineering skill is fouled up, from derailing trolleys to permanently malfunctioning message boards, buses with cracked suspensions, etcetera.

Construction issues extend to more petty concerns - starting with the fact that the pace of any T project is positively glacial. You'd need time-lapse photography over a period of three years to determine that any progress at all was being made in the piddly little renovation of Arlington Station. In the meantime, massive buildings like the Clarendon and the W grow faster than dandelions on either side. And no T project ever really seems done, because the fit and finish, well ... isn't. T projects don't end with a bang but with a whimper. At some point you simply notice that the infrequent appearance of slow-moving construction workers has ceased altogether. Exposed wires, gaps between floor tiles and walls, mismatched and chipped panels, steady leaks, uneven floors ... all are the norm from Day 1 in every "renovated" station. Look at Charles MGH, or Kenmore, or North Station: in comparison, a 1977 Chevette was assembled with ten times more care, better materials, and loving attention to detail.

Obviously it's easy to pick on the T, and engineering in landfill is tricky. Many of the T's problems can be traced to the failure of their funding mechanism (they are essentially bankrupt) and also to the historical role of the T, where "good jobs with good benefits" remains the top priority, with transit somewhere further down the list, and pride in a job done well and on time apparently not on the list at all. Grabauskas can't solve these problems by himself, and some can't be solved quickly by anyone.

But whatever sympathy you have for the T's funding problems and their role in addressing the dearth of employment opportunities in South Boston, and latterly, in Dorchester and Roxbury, the fact is that first-rate engineering challenges can't be addressed with third-rate engineers. As one Bay Village resident noted, "fortunately for them, the Old South is a high profile public institution ... when the Silver Line tunnel opens up a three inch crack in my exterior wall, I'm not going to get a story in the Globe, they are just going to tell me to get in line behind a thousand other people with complaints."
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Boston Globe - December 11, 2008
Silver Line faces loss of funding for last link

By Noah Bierman, Globe Staff | December 11, 2008

The MBTA's largest and highest-priority expansion project, a proposed $1.5 billion Silver Line tunnel under downtown Boston, is in immediate danger of losing federal backing because of the transit agency's weak financial condition, say sources briefed on the decision.

The Federal Transit Administration has told the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority that it plans to officially downgrade the final section of the Silver Line, a 1.1-mile bus connector that would allow riders to travel on the line from Roxbury to Logan International Airport, the sources said. While lauded by city and state officials as a crucial transit link, the project has been criticized by some as a "little dig" because of its growing price tag and potential for downtown disruption.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the project's new rating will not become official until February, when the federal government releases its national project priorities. The Federal Transit Administration declined to confirm the report.

MBTA spokesman Joe Pesaturo also declined to comment on the decision, but said, "More information should be forthcoming in the next couple of months."

The expected downgrading, from medium to medium-low, means that unless the MBTA can fix its financial problems, the agency will not qualify for a 60 percent federal match for the project's final design, a critical step in beginning construction in 2011.

The T can reapply for the matching money, but would need to demonstrate a substantial change in its ability to pay both its 40 percent share of the project and its annual operating costs, without shortchanging existing bus, subway, and train service.

"It's a statement of reality," one state official said of the federal rating. "The big lie is over."

In the meantime, state officials will have to decide soon whether to stop work on the project or risk spending millions of dollars that may never be reimbursed, an official said.

The rating sends a strong message that the federal government recognizes the T's financial plight. The transit system carries an $8.1 billion debt load and has been depleting reserves and borrowing more money to pay its bills, a downward spiral that has the agency on the cusp of a major fare hike in 2010.

Some state officials are hopeful that the current discussions on Beacon Hill to reorganize transportation and possibly bail out the T could revive the project without losing significant time. Richard Dimino, a top advocate of the project who runs an independent business group, insists the timeline will not be affected, because the T can continue to work on already approved portions of the project's engineering throughout next year and then apply again for final design approval.

"This is simply a matter of getting a report card and waiting for the next semester's report card," said Dimino, president of a group called A Better City, which was formed to promote the Big Dig.

The Federal Transit Administration still considers the Silver Line tunnel a well-planned project and can review the finances again at any time, officials said. Until then, the T's expansion plans will continue to face public scrutiny. The Silver Line is the last expansion project that will be paid for out of the T's budget; others, like a train line to New Bedford and Fall River, are slated to be paid directly out of the state's budget.

"The only way the T can afford any expansion is for the state to contribute additional revenues, and even then it depends on how much," said Michael Widmer, head of the Massachusetts Taxpayer Foundation, a nonpartisan business-backed group. "The T's structural deficit is so large and growing that even additional state assistance might not be sufficient for the T to afford any expansion."

The project, in the works for more than a decade, has long been controversial. In 2005, MBTA General Manager Daniel A. Grabauskas suspended work on it, fearing that community opposition would doom its chances for federal money. It has since been rerouted and revived, but it continues to inspire opponents in the Theater District, Bay Village, and other adjacent areas where residents are concerned about the impact construction will have on historic buildings.

Roxbury residents have been divided, with some arguing that they should be served by a trolley on Washington Street and that they do not need an additional link to the airport and others believing that the Silver Line will provide economic development.

The project's costs have grown from $750 million a few years ago to its current price tag, now estimated between $1.5 billion and $1.6 billion. The last official estimate, released in 2007, was $1.2 billion.

Last week's revelation that a $45 million MBTA station upgrade in Copley Square has cracked a 135-year-old historic landmark has heightened concerns among opponents.

"Look what happened to the Old South Church, a very small construction project by comparison, and they weren't even able to protect that building," said David Rosen, vice president of public affairs for Emerson College, which would be adjacent to the tunnel digging.

Mark Slater, vice president of the Bay Village Neighborhood Association, said the latest setback for the project is a golden opportunity to kill it for good.

"I wish they would just give it up and think about planning something that is actually a genuine needed piece of the transportation puzzle," Slater said.

Mayor Thomas M. Menino has supported the project, because it links several neighborhoods with the emerging South Boston Waterfront, in addition to connecting the two branches of the Silver Line. For instance, many riders on the Orange and Green lines who would now need to make more than one transfer to get to the airport or Seaport would be able to simply get on the Silver Line at Boylston or Chinatown.

The T is legally committed to building the last phase of the Silver Line under an environmental compact signed to mitigate the impacts of the Big Dig. But the agreement allows the state to substitute another urban project if necessary.

The lower rating "does make it a lot more difficult to get this project done," said Thomas J. Tinlin, Menino's transportation commissioner. "But at the same time, in these tough economic times, what city wouldn't want a billion dollars worth of construction investment? That's a lot of jobs, as well as the overall benefit of good public transportation in their city."

Noah Bierman can be reached at nbierman@globe.com.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Good.

Kill that project.

Build the Medford Green Line extension, and make long term plans for more useful route improvements.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Kill it, make the Medford/Somerville extension part of a project to run light rail to Dudley along the current SL1 route. Extending the line further to Mattapan would be even smarter to relieve the bus routes. The densest and most underserved communities, in and around Boston, would then have rapid transit access to downtown.

They could share the new car order and a new yard to store all the equipment. Boylston gets a rehab to become a major transfer station and takes a lot of waiting/transfering passenger loads away from Government Center and Park Street.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Yeah... what those guys said. I feel like I should finally write an editorial piece on the SL.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

The expected downgrading, from medium to medium-low, means that unless the MBTA can fix its financial problems, the agency will not qualify for a 60 percent federal match for the project's final design, a critical step in beginning construction in 2011.

The T can reapply for the matching money, but would need to demonstrate a substantial change in its ability to pay both its 40 percent share of the project and its annual operating costs, without shortchanging existing bus, subway, and train service

I don't think the unions are going to sit back and allow this to happen, especially in this economy with so many projects being delayed. The state will have to do something.

I also think the state doesn't want to build this project as planned, it's just too weird.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I also think the state doesn't want to build this project as planned, it's just too weird.

Maybe deval and his buddies only want commuter rail?
 
Silver Bus Line

From now on, please do not confuse people by calling it the "Silver Line". By doing so, people will assume that it's a "Line" in the same way the Blue "Line", Red "Line", Green "Line" and "Orange" Line are "lines".

We should call it the "Silver Bus".

With the emphasis on "bus", of course.
 
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

Send a letter to the MBTA, maybe they'll realize we're not as dumb as they think.
 
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

Silver Line not on track for a bailout
By Noah Bierman
December 14, 2008


Last week, the Globe reported a new and significant snag in the last phase of the Silver Line project, the controversial 1.1-mile tunnel under downtown Boston intended to link Roxbury with Logan International Airport.

The Federal Transit Administration is concerned that the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority is broke and cannot afford its 40 percent share of the estimated $1.5 billion costs without sacrificing existing bus, train, and rail service. As a result, the feds plan to downgrade the project in February, when the next list of federally funded projects is published, several officials said last week. That means the T cannot progress to a final design unless officials can prove the state has fixed its disastrous finances.

So if the T has no money, could President-elect Barack Obama's stimulus plan cover the costs? Obama wants to use large-scale public works projects to stimulate the flagging economy, and the Patrick administration has been making a list of road and transit projects that might qualify when the rules are established.

So far, the answer is no for the Silver Line tunnel. The project is not on the state's list, said Klark Jessen, a spokesman for Bernard Cohen, the transportation secretary. The state has yet to release a full list, but Jessen said planners wanted projects that are closer to being "shovel-ready."

Link

Good, let this money go to more deserving projects. I don't even care if the state loses money in the end, not building this ridiculous tunnel is better for everyone in the long run.
 
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

I go to this forum for mbta a news and several of the posters are extremely knowledgeable. There are several AB members there already. Check out some of the postings by 'F-line to Dudley via Park' especially in regards to Harvard's planned expansion of the red line into Alston. Ron you must have a lot of insight about this form.

I don't know how accurate this post is but if it's true it's important to concider:

Re: "Silver Line" Expansion Losing Federal Money
by jamesinclair on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:42 pm

Silver Line money and green line expansion money are completely different. One project will not affect the other one, for the same reason that canceling SL3 will bot allow for new vehicles to be purchased for the orange line


http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=57485&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
 
Last edited:
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

We laugh because we love you.

On Washington Street, this afternoon.

rapid_transit1.jpg
 
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

My dream is that if we're stuck with this damn thing for the next few decades, the T does the sensible thing and electrifies the entire thing.

But that will never happen, of course. Someone will complain about the wires, and the T will run away frightened. Hell, even the non-tunnel segments of the Urban Ring are going to be diesel.
 
Re: Silver Bus Line - Phase III

A few more of these is all Boston needs to catch up with world-class Curitiba.
 

Back
Top