Silver Line to Chelsea

scorpio02150 said:
Supervisors at Haymarket are also slick when they see a mob of people waiting for the 111 and they order the driver to change to 111C because of traffic/scheduling issues; that same bus is made to make a shorter trip to accommodate the T and not the passengers. Multiple times the Supervisors would nearly get whacked by older ladies and young folks 😂
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Yes I'd see alot of 111's becoming C's.

Difference is, good portion of the 111 travelers are between Haymarket and Cary Sq.. beyond Cary, ridership drops exponentially.

But I've been on the otherside of the 111 at Woodlawn and waiting 20+ minutes for a 111 to take me into town (I often come from Everett from a client's office and use the 110 to switch to the 111). So I know what its like.
 
So today on the Silver Line....

As I keep saying.."When it's good, its good. When it's bad, it's bad"

AM this morning was great. I had go in earlier to setup for a 7am meeting, so I was on the 6am bus. Box District To Courthouse in 20 minutes. I was at my desk in 30.

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Not too bad. Really, if we can get signal prioritization along the entire route, use of the ramp, and quicker switch over at SL way, we could really speed up this route to < 22 minutes end to end.

And like the other days.. the PM was OK. The SL3 was 10 minute late. No bridge today or much traffic. Just a bit late. I was at my house eating ice cream by 5 so I was happy.

And of course, if you want to see the rest of the sheet where I keep my times, you can click here.
 
oh and one more thing.. ridership is building. Every day I see more and more people. Today I had to sit next to someone on the way home because most seats were taken. We even had some standees after we got to Airport.

Mornings I see more people waiting. At 6am, there were at 8 people waiting. Most i had seen yet.

It's nice to see people using the service.
 
cybah said:
Yeah a bit of traffic in the tunnel, and then the bridge went up. Since it was raining and I had a seat, I didn't care. But what happened next is what got me.

We finally get over the bridge (mind you, we're pushin 20 minutes behind), and the driver turns around at Eastern Ave to the inbound stop and says "everyone out".

Uh.

So I asked the inspector lady here WHY would you do such a thing? Her reply "Well since the bridge went up, the driver is late so we have to short turn here".

Let me get this straight... traffic in a tunnel and a bridge that went up for 20 minutes, both of which you have no control so the bus is already late getting these passengers to their location because of said bridge and tunnel; And your solution here is just to dump the passengers off in the rain at Eastern Ave Station only to be told "oh there will be another one in a few" on a line that already has headway issues??
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It looks like SL3 is scheduled as 27 minutes each way in the weekday afternoon for the Chelsea Market Basket to South Station trip. 10 minute headways is probably 6 vehicles if the challenges with the bridge are ignored.

It might be ideal for SL3 to not depart South Station if the bridge is going to be up when it gets to the bridge; the harbor pilots and or marine vessel tracking websites ought to be able to provide some pretty good advanced notice of when the bridge is going to go up, although there may be a bit of random variation in both when the bridge goes up after an inbound ship reaches some point and in how long the bus takes to get from South Station to the bridge.
 
Joel N. Weber II said:
It looks like SL3 is scheduled as 27 minutes each way in the weekday afternoon for the Chelsea Market Basket to South Station trip. 10 minute headways is probably 6 vehicles if the challenges with the bridge are ignored.

It might be ideal for SL3 to not depart South Station if the bridge is going to be up when it gets to the bridge; the harbor pilots and or marine vessel tracking websites ought to be able to provide some pretty good advanced notice of when the bridge is going to go up, although there may be a bit of random variation in both when the bridge goes up after an inbound ship reaches some point and in how long the bus takes to get from South Station to the bridge.
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It'll never happen but a Massport Eastern Ave - Airport loop could solve for this as well. A Chelsea - Airport loop would also help greatly.
 
JumboBuc said:
Today in news that everyone who was at all paying attention saw coming from a mile away:

Globe: New Chelsea Silver Line hits bridge delays
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First off, thanks for posting that. If you didn't make the connection, I am the guy who was interviewed (Kris) in the article.

Adam called me like out of the blue today while i was at work. Which is odd, he usually emails me first to schedule at time. I think he was trying to get this published today.

But this was a few phone calls over a few weeks. He's working on a few stories, and since I am the Silver Line Guy (and a ROC member), he called to get my opinion.

Anyways..

First off, Adam references my rider log. It can be seen here if you are curious.

And he kept asking me for my answer on how to fix the bridge issue. Frankly, outside of a tunnel (which I explained to him), there's not alot that can be done. I said what could be done in the article. Not much.

I mean, we knew this was going to happen. We did. Its expected. And there's not much we can do to fix it.

However.. one thing Adam glazed over, was I wrote a "Silver Line Improvement Plan" (it can be seen here), which I outlined many ways to improve the line as a whole. If we could fix some of these issues, the bridge issue, while still a big deal, would be off set by the time savings elsewhere.

As I said, when the service is good.. its great. But when its bad its really bad. So lets try to make it good a good portion of time, even with the bridge issues.

I know i've asked this before, but I want to re-ask the question again, because Adam kept asking me this question, and outside already discussed issues, I was out of ideas.

Outside of a Tunnel or a bridge being built for the SL over the Chelsea Creek, what are YOUR recommendations to mitigate the bridge issue?
 
Solve it as an information problem:

Information:
1.0) T should know when high tides are, so that it can warn on variable message signs/audio: "bridge raisings likely during next two high tides" X:00am-Y:00am and A:00pm-B:00pm (or XY Today and AB Tomorrow)

1.1) T should know when the bridge raisings are and how long they take so that the warning window above can be narrowed

1.2) T should nail the exact likely Up/Down times and warn

1.3) T should forecast specific online stops that need to know this (Chelsea inbound and Seaport outbound

1.4) T should notify specific *buses* that they are likely to be delayed or turned back at Eastern or Airport (like leave the first bus there for people who want to sit it out, while turning other buses back to Seaport to maintain headways)

1.4) T should have Waze-quality "what if I drove around?" information


Active Response:
2.0) Stops affected (1.3) should get specific alternate route instructions (like a 11x, if likely faster)

2.1) Buses affected should get notifications (this bus is likely to be delayed/held/ for X minutes or this bus will be turned back at Airport)

2.2) Dynamic Re-Route onto Meridian or out 1A and back down Eastern if Waze says it is 5 minutes faster than current estimated bridge delay.

QED
 
So I will chime in as a ROC Member and what I know about this. I've had loooooong discussions with the T about this. (and yes, with the right people too)

Arlington said:
Solve it as an information problem:

Information:
1.0) T should know when high tides are, so that it can warn on variable message signs/audio: "bridge raisings likely during next two high tides" X:00am-Y:00am and A:00pm-B:00pm (or XY Today and AB Tomorrow)
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They do. The bridge going up is not 100% tide dependant. Remember the creek is dredged so even in low tide a smaller craft can go up the creek.

And currently when the bridge goes up it does have an visual and audio announcement at affected stations, its a general idea. But I am told once the software to interface the bridge operator with the T, the estimate will be more accurate.

1.1) T should know when the bridge raisings are and how long they take so that the warning window above can be narrowed

1.2) T should nail the exact likely Up/Down times and warn
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The T is buying software just to do this. I think it should be ready by end of the year(?)

1.3) T should forecast specific online stops that need to know this (Chelsea inbound and Seaport outbound
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So remember the T does not control how its displayed online. Its up to the app providers to display it. The offical transit app, does give bridge annoucements when it goes up. You have to subscribe to the line to get them as notifications on your phone. So the feed exists for the bridge notifications exists, its up to the apps to display it.

1.4) T should notify specific *buses* that they are likely to be delayed or turned back at Airport Blue line (like leave 1 there, while turning others back to Seaport to maintain headways)
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They already do that. See my sheet for my MANY complaints about this. See my PPT I posted above for a solution for that.

1.4) T should have Waze-quality "what if I drove around?" information
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They already do in the Control Center. Which is dispatch for the line. So they know. And they already do. Drivers are not allowed to make that decision, it has to come from an inspector (usually at Airport or Eastern Ave) or someone on the radio. And frankly, the other options just blow in traffic.

Active Response:
2.0) Stops affected (1.3) should get specific alternate route instructions (like a 11x, if likely faster)

The

2.1) Buses affected should get notifications (this bus is likely to be delayed/held/ for X minutes or this bus will be turned back at Airport)

2.2) Dynamic Re-Route onto Meridian or out 1A and back down Eastern if Waze says it is 5 minutes faster than current estimated bridge delay.

QED
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They do all of these already. I think once the software gets up and going alot of what you say above will happen. I think the SL3 will improve some after this happens.

Most alternative routes are just a crap shoot. It really depends on traffic. In no traffic, the current 1A detour is very quick and will be speedier than waiting. But in traffic. Forget it. (which was my point in the article). The merdian street bridge is no better than the Chelsea Street one, plus once you add in traffic in Chelsea trying to get over the bridge, and again traffic to get back over to the route would mitigate any savings than just waiting.

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I am not trying to poopoo you but they already do most of it. *shrug* Amazingly enough sometimes the T does do the right thing.....
 
I divided my points into 1 & 2 specifically to say that doing "2.x" wasn't really doing that thing until you *actually knew in advance* when the bridge was going up and could get all the re-routes going while the buses were still far from the bridge and the bridge itself gave no visible evidence of opening.

Doing the 2s predictively, I'd say, is totally different from doing them reactively.
 
cybah said:
In no traffic, the current 1A detour is very quick and will be speedier than waiting. But in traffic. Forget it. (which was my point in the article). The merdian street bridge is no better than the Chelsea Street one, plus once you add in traffic in Chelsea trying to get over the bridge, and again traffic to get back over to the route would mitigate any savings than just waiting.
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A shoulder bus lane on 1A from the Winthrop Ave ramp to Boardman St might help both this detour and a bunch of express buses, but it would require some pavement widening.
 
cybah said:
Outside of a Tunnel or a bridge being built for the SL over the Chelsea Creek, what are YOUR recommendations to mitigate the bridge issue?
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An unfortunate accident to the engine that moves the bridge which requires 4-6 years to fix.
 
Recognizing that a drawbridge is the only feasible option for crossing this Chelsea Creek, I've never understood why a vertical-lift deck was chosen over a two-leaf bascule design (similar to the existing Meridian Street Bridge). The opening and closing cycles of a bascule bridge are much quicker than a vertical-lift span; I know this because I've sat in traffic at both bridges, and have seen them open and close numerous times.

I asked engineers working on the new Chelsea Street Bridge during community meeting and never got a straight answer, only that the new bridge would be state-of-the-art. I can only assume that the bridge project team were aware of the Silver Line, and that the time to open and close the bridge would impact the T's service level...

Anyone have thoughts or information on this?
 
Beton Brut said:
Recognizing that a drawbridge is the only feasible option for crossing this Chelsea Creek, I've never understood why a vertical-lift deck was chosen over a two-leaf bascule design (similar to the existing Meridian Street Bridge). The opening and closing cycles of a bascule bridge are much quicker than a vertical-lift span; I know this because I've sat in traffic at both bridges, and have seen them open and close numerous times.

I asked engineers working on the new Chelsea Street Bridge during community meeting and never got a straight answer, only that the new bridge would be state-of-the-art. I can only assume that the bridge project team were aware of the Silver Line, and that the time to open and close the bridge would impact the T's service level...

Anyone have thoughts or information on this?
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I've been told from sources that the new bridge, as designed, was supposed to take the same amount of time as the old bridge, but due to an engineering/architectural error, the sheaves as designed didn't fit in the penthouse, so they had to swap them for ones that were half the size, thus slowing the bridge down dramatically. Now we're stuck with a slow-as-hell bridge.
 
Fascinating. And disgraceful.

Is this reparable/correctable?

And what gas station currently employs those responsible for this error?
 
datadyne007 said:
Nope.
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Well that's just fucking perfect.

Without tipping your hand regarding your source, was the piss-poor engineering done by MassDOT or a consultancy? And was this ever reported in the press (I don't recall seeing it)?

If the design work were done privately, wouldn't a lawsuit be in order?
 
cybah said:
I know i've asked this before, but I want to re-ask the question again, because Adam kept asking me this question, and outside already discussed issues, I was out of ideas.

Outside of a Tunnel or a bridge being built for the SL over the Chelsea Creek, what are YOUR recommendations to mitigate the bridge issue?
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Somebody at ArchBoston must have a better answer than I did, yes? I'm glad I tried addressing it as an information problem (nail the up/down times to power predictive re-routes, instead of reactive). Consider that the organization-and-signals phase

Here are some right of way items:

EASTERN RUN-AROUND
- Bus Lanes on 1A (also for use by the 424,434,450,448,449, & 459) (mentioned by others, above)
- bus-and-bike the old RR shoreline grade
- Add a new SL that goes out 1A bus lanes and taps off riders in Revere and Everett where the 110, 111, 116, 117, and 119 start in Revere or Woodlawn (in Everett)

WESTERN RUN-AROUND
- Use Condor St in East Boston for a better Western Runaround (consolidate parking on the south side of the street, where the residences are). Give Condor St a bus-and-bike lane on its north side.

- Or make other east Boston streets (those currently served by buses, so the neighbors are helped) easier for run-around: Lexington St (where the 121 runs) or Bennington St (where the 120 runs)

RUNAROUND PRIORITY
Transit Signal Priority on both run-arounds, to access and cross the alternative bridges. To be shared with the many 11x and 4xx buses that go those ways.'
Also put TSP on MA-107 so that the SL can come back in that way (helps the 116, 117 too)
 
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