South Boston Infill and Small Developments

[choo]

Re: South Boston Development

^ not really the read i was getting on this. may have read into it so much. I think its a bit of a stretch to say the "innovation District" is slowing down. Which of the about 6 projects under or nearing construction gives you the impression of slower growth?

Also, the fact that new offices and rising rents in the ID are making people see new value downtown is also a great sign. It's that whole supply-demand thing- more office, lower price, more office wanted. If anything, paypal going to IP and the construction in the ID is a good sign of a healthy market.

The convention center buying the property is only another sign of the growth down there. More Buildings, more people, less open land means higher prices. The BCEC obviously wants to expand, and the necessity of that is debatable and not what I am even discussing. But since they do and its not yet final, they at least need to be able to go to the city and state and say we want to build this here. They would have a much harder argument to make if they didn't own it. And if they waited til it was green lighted to buy the land, I guarantee you Intercontinental would have got a lot more than $33 million.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Development

^ And if they waited til it was green lighted to buy the land, I guarantee you Intercontinental would have got a lot more than $33 million.

Putting up 22 Million 5 years ago and receiving 33 Million for no effort is a pretty good return.

Can't make this type of money in the markets these days. The Facebook IPO was a complete fraud. Stock is almost down 50% from the IPO price. Good old fashion Wall Street Pump & Dump deal.

It's really difficult to believe that the BCEC & our public officials have our backs anymore. Seriously if this was such a money maker besides Kraft, name one other person who could have made this area a tax revenue money machine rather than a taxpayers money pit.

I was reading a post from a blogger on the Paypal move to IP. The blogger claims that the reason the company did not follow the move with the crowd to the innovation district was the Silverline Bus. Who wants to ride a bus in the city. I'm telling you that will be the downfall to the Seaport. No effective planning for Transit.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Re: South Boston Development

I was reading a post from a blogger on the Paypal move to IP. The blogger claims that the reason the company did not follow the move with the crowd to the innovation district was the Silverline Bus. Who wants to ride a bus in the city. I'm telling you that will be the downfall to the Seaport. No effective planning for Transit.

IP is no closer to any T station (Aquarium, State, DTX or S Station) than the Seaport is to South Station.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: South Boston Development

IP is no closer to any T station (Aquarium, State, DTX or S Station) than the Seaport is to South Station.

Quoted for truth. IP and all of the FiDi has horrific transit access. The Seaport via the Silver Line has significantly better transit access.

 

[czsz]

Re: South Boston Development

Huh? It might seem that way given that, relative to other places downtown, IP and parts of the FiDi are not that close to transit, but look on a map. IP is three blocks, or about 1000 feet, from South Station. The comparable distance in the direction of the Seaport barely gets you into Fort Point. Fan Pier is just as far as IP to the Northwest but reaching South Station requires crossing Fort Point Channel in addition. Does the Silver Line make up for any of this? It requires a connection at South Station to reach most of the city and has low capacity...

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Development

Quoted for truth. IP and all of the FiDi has horrific transit access. The Seaport via the Silver Line has significantly better transit access.

I'm talking about fast efficient hard-rail stops like Red, orange or blue which also could use a massive upgrade these days......the silver-line belongs in the outerskirts of boston in Mattapan or Dorchester, Everett, Revere, not in the innovation district.

If I was the city my goal would be to try to minimize the buses driving through the city. Just have centalization on certain areas where the buses roll in the city drop off and pick-up.

Malden or quincy square might be better planned than the innovation district.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: South Boston Development

Picture of the site in the Herald today.

Not sure if the bulldozer is just being stored there, or if there is activity on the site.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: South Boston Development

Huh? It might seem that way given that, relative to other places downtown, IP and parts of the FiDi are not that close to transit, but look on a map. IP is three blocks, or about 1000 feet, from South Station. The comparable distance in the direction of the Seaport barely gets you into Fort Point. Fan Pier is just as far as IP to the Northwest but reaching South Station requires crossing Fort Point Channel in addition. Does the Silver Line make up for any of this? It requires a connection at South Station to reach most of the city and has low capacity...

For clarity, and from walking it a number of times. Looking at a map (google maps) it's 0.4 miles from SS to IP, or just over 2,000 feet. It lists this as a 7 minute walk. It seems so much shorter because the building is so big on the horizon. This isn't an insurmountable walk obviously, just being fair.

I think it has been discussed a number of times, but the low capacity of the Silver Line is as fixable as adding buses to the fleet when the area starts requiring it. Buses = cheaper to buy than trains. Like most I'd rather it wa s atrain, but it is so much better than so many make it out to be.

I don't know who the anonymous blogger is, but one wonders if these Paypal people rode the bus underground or read the negatives or judged a bus by its cover.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: South Boston Development

If I was the city my goal would be to try to minimize the buses driving through the city. Just have centalization on certain areas where the buses roll in the city drop off and pick-up.

Malden or quincy square might be better planned than the innovation district.

What part of the buses are underground don't you understand? Go ride the fucking Silver Line for Pete's sake. The area that is the so called Innovation District is realistically served by the underground portion of the Silver Line. This equates to your desire to minimize the buses driving through the city, they are driving under it.

Yes in other areas they are above ground, but the area you are talking about they don't. The point doesn't apply.

I swear from the way you talk about it, you have never been on it. I want to support some of your complaints but you need to make valid ones more often and stop supporting valid arguments with nonsensical falsities.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Development

What part of the buses are underground don't you understand? Go ride the fucking Silver Line for Pete's sake. The area that is the so called Innovation District is realistically served by the underground portion of the Silver Line. This equates to your desire to minimize the buses driving through the city, they are driving under it.

Yes in other areas they are above ground, but the area you are talking about they don't. The point doesn't apply.

I swear from the way you talk about it, you have never been on it. I want to support some of your complaints but you need to make valid ones more often and stop supporting valid arguments with nonsensical falsities.

NYC subways are part of their culture at this point. The GRID is a beast but it makes everything so accessible.

Boston MBTA needs an expansion & massive upgrade to the RED, BLUE, Orange and Green lines.............

I rode the Silverline Bus once. It was fine but I do not like riding buses throughout Boston.



The BCEC was just built in 2004 for 850 Million dollars. 8 years later an expansion for 2 billion dollars.

Does anybody know how much revenue the BCEC brings in each year?
What can we expect for growth in the future?

The Boston Convention and Exhibition Center (BCEC) is the largest exhibition center in the Northeast United States, with some 516,000 square feet (about 4.8 hectares) of contiguous exhibition space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Convention_and_Exhibition_Center

The area needs a Hardrail stop that is one of the reasons why people have stay attracted to the smaller Hynes Convention Center in Boston's Back Bay.
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.

If there is money to be made in this area then why are the taxpayers continually funding everything to get built in the Innovation District? Even with Hotels in the area the BCEC is located in the dark end of the city in my opinion. When is the Innovation District actually going to Innovate some tax revenue.

This is political looting at its best.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: South Boston Development

I don't understand how discussing the Silver Line based on the experience of riding the bus -- whether once or 200 times, it is relevant to any discussion of Seaport / ID development.

Same goes for Ted Williams Tunnel, Bypass Road, etc.

The Silver Line can only be reasonably assessed today by a computer model. Its success may be more easily judged in 10-20 years when ridership begins to exceed capacity.

And that's where the conversation should be today. Planning for light rail based on full build of the waterfront.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: South Boston Development

And that's where the conversation should be today. Planning for light rail based on full build of the waterfront.

Shouldn't the city planners & MBTA officials be planning the future of a hard-rail now before the entire build-out of the waterfront?

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: South Boston Development

Shouldn't the city planners & MBTA officials be planning the future of a hard-rail now before the entire build-out of the waterfront?

There will never be hard rail, but I think it is extremely likely that the Silver line tunnel will eventually be used for both light rail, possibly mixing with buses. But that's 15 - 20 years out at least, because the build out needs to be much further along to justify the higher capacity LRT vehicles.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: South Boston Development

Shouldn't the city planners & MBTA officials be planning the future of a hard-rail now before the entire build-out of the waterfront?

In my view, planning mass transit for full build of the waterfront should be the #1 priority.

Priorities are misplaced if the BCEC is finding $33 mil for a $22 mil parcel, $6 mil for a video marquis, $18 mill to float loans for a private museum, and not a thin dime for area infrastructure and transit improvements.

 

[Shepard]

Re: South Boston Development

My argument about the Silver Line isn't necessarily that the mode of transit is terribly wrong (although 10mph in a dedicated tunnel hardly qualified as "right" ... but in any case) rather to me the problem is lack of connectivity with the line stub-ending at South Station, essentially requiring two transfers to go anywhere off the Red Line. I recognize that the "mini big dig" of connecting Sl Waterfront to SL Dudley would have helped this... but given the mode of transport and the destruction of the Tremont Street Tunnel, the price would have been too big.

Arguably, judging the situation now, the Seaport would be better served by a surface BRT that ran Summer Street - South Station - Greenway - North Station thereby hitting all major connections.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: South Boston Development

Arguably, judging the situation now, the Seaport would be better served by a surface BRT that ran Summer Street - South Station - Greenway - North Station thereby hitting all major connections.

What it needs is a portal on the South Station side, enabling both that and a true connection to Dudley service. It would also make sense to have the RKG surface route continue on to Charlestown, finally replacing the Atlantic Ave. El.

Of course, the final version of all of this is light railification, but let's at least build the portal now.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: South Boston Development

BCEC is telling media that the Herald's article on the purchase is false. They're interested in the parcel but never made a purchase. The Herald, however, is sticking to it's reporting, saying it has trusted sources.

 

[ParkerChris]

Re: South Boston Development

I rode the Silverline Bus once. It was fine but I do not like riding buses throughout Boston.

Washington St. Silverline or Seaport? These are completely different. The Seaport Silverline stations also have some of the nicest stations IMO (underground at that). You really should ride it from South Station to the SPID, its not a bad experience at all.

 

[tocoto]

Re: South Boston Development

An unscientific Google search of best convention centers in the US shows Las Vegas, Orlando, San Diego, Atlanta, Chicago, San Francisco coming up often. Transit does not seem to matter nearly as much as some combination of state of the art facility, location near attractions, good weather, nightlife, nonstop airport access to many cities, readily available hotel rooms at different price points. BCEC was not mentioned at any of the sites I visited. Boston has some of these things but hotels, nightlife and airport are the things it seems could be most easily changed to make the BCEC more attractive.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: South Boston Development

BCEC is telling media that the Herald's article on the purchase is false. They're interested in the parcel but never made a purchase. The Herald, however, is sticking to it's reporting, saying it has trusted sources.

Eminent domain takings are not secret proceedings. Presumably, the Herald has seen some official document setting out the taking of this property. If not, .......