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Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I wish there would have been some more emphasis put on a 'grand' train terminal. Something to make south station more memorable. Some sort of glass dome or metal & glass reaching to the sky.
 
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Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I wish there would have been some more emphasis but on a 'grand' train terminal. Something to make south station more memorable. Some sort of glass dome or metal & glass reaching to the sky.

The plans I saw back in the 90's (can't believe that was 10 years ago) had what was refered to as 'Great Space' over the South Station Terminal. It was esentially a space frame/skylight over the waiting area that would allow people to look up at the tower from the inside.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

From what I've been told, there will be a "grand space" under the tower, with the possibility of some pretty cool public art/architecture as the cieling of the train hall, looking up at the tower.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

From what I've been told, there will be a "grand space" under the tower, with the possibility of some pretty cool public art/architecture as the cieling of the train hall, looking up at the tower.


We all know that it will, at its best, look like the central court of the Pru mall looking up at the tower. It will certainly never approximate the grand, glass-ceilinged rail sheds in Europe.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

We all know that it will, at its best, look like the central court of the Pru mall looking up at the tower. It will certainly never approximate the grand, glass-ceilinged rail sheds in Europe.

That's because it's not a grand, glass-ceilinged rail shed of Europe! It's a major office/mixed use development in the heart of Boston in 2010.

I didn't mean it would be architectural necessarily, apparently there will be room for something/somebody in between an artist and an architect to design scultpure/visual art for under the tower - much more than just a glass atrium.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

A glass shed would be nice though, and fit the site appropriately. IMO, capping the tracks behind the station with a low, dark ceiling would represent a lost opportunity. The Berlin example (with its intersecting glass barrel vaults) shows how the basic shed design can be modified to create something unique (in this case, the tower elevator descending gracefully into the shed, perhaps).
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I agree about the glass shed, but it is just a train station afterall...
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I have to disagree with the remark about anything being "just a train station, after all." Train stations have been the framework for the centerpiece architectural masterpieces of European cities from Moscow to Helsinki to Paris to Berlin and London -- and as St. Pancras and Hauptbahnhoff (sp?) illustrate, they still serve that purpose.

Even in New York, Grand Central is one of the city's most impressive buildings; so was the old Penn Station, and the cruddiness of its replacement is the catalyst for a proposed $15bln shot at getting it right (again).

South Station is no slob, and it's a Beaux-Arts beauty that deserves to be gussied up. If this country gets smart, we'll finally embrace the train as an ecologically preferable mode of transport, and beautiful train stations will improve everyone's quality of life that much more.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

Now if they can only get rid of the Stone and Webster building and rebuild the wing (and much of the original waiting room) that was destroyed to make way for that peice of crap. :)
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

From the Sunday Globe. I don't know whether new buildings is going to become Allis' beat or not.

Tracking progress

Big plans for South Station, but don't hold your breath

By Sam Allis, Globe Columnist | February 3, 2008
Good news, gentle readers: no Patriots palaver here. There's nothing left to say except, forget the spread, they win in a tight one.

But the past week was traumatic for the Observer. The Internet went down from Asia to North Africa. Recession is stamping its feet on my front porch. Most unnerving, George Bush gave another State of the Union address.

This was simply too much, so I repaired to the Main Concourse of the South Station for some contemplative time. Good train stations provide great urban space and, counterintuitively, remarkable privacy. I sat in a chair, clam-like happy, as the weight of the world rose from my shoulders.

But my contentment was upended by the news that the station is finally going to be transformed, starting very soon. The second quarter of this year, to be precise. This project has not exactly been a sprint. We're talking Boston time. The Boston Redevelopment Authority finished its first study of such a concept in 1963.

For all of us who don't use the South Station, headlines about impending plans there pass across our collective consciousness like bats at dusk. We sort of know that someone is putting up a giant office building above it. Sometime. But, like everything else in Boston, this is a Waiting For Godot kind of thing.

And the US Postal Service is supposed to quit its giant annex adjacent to the South Station for a spot in South Boston owned by the Massachusetts Port Authority. Sometime. Progress, charitably put, has been glacial, but the two sides are getting close, and last Monday, the Postal Service accepted proposals from five developers for the project. That is real.

What's happening first is that Gerald Hines, the huge international developer, is at last on the move. (He is partnered with TUDC, a Tufts University subsidiary.) He is also, by the way, one of the five interested developers in the post office. Hines could end up with the whole thing - maybe 8 million square feet worth.

Hines will break ground in a matter of months on a 40-story glass-and-steel number that will rise over the old headhouse facing Dewey Square. He's also going to enlarge the bus station and connect it with the train station so that people don't have to brave the elements to get from one to another.

What about tenants? Does he have any?

"We're looking now," says David Perry, who's trailbossing the project for Hines. "We'll do it preferably with tenants, possibly without." Either way, this thing is going up this year.

This will be a three-year construction line, which will further amuse the poor drones who trudge off to their happy destiny every morning from the station. Jackhammers, dust. Yum.

Perry says virtually all of the main concourse will remain intact during construction. But its future is up to Equity Office Properties Trust, which has a 30-year lease on it and the current office space above. It was mum when I asked what it had in mind, but you just know Equity will go way up the food chain for stores and eateries to match the Hines glitter.

Next from Hines come a second building housing a hotel and condos, and a third for office space, both stretching above the enlarged bus terminal.

Question: What took Hines so long? Financing? What?

Nine years of permitting, says Perry. This project is among the most complicated that Hines has done, and he's done a gazillion around the world. Perry has been dealing with the MBTA, Amtrak, the BRA, the US Postal Service, the Federal Railroad Administration, the Federal Aviation Administration, you name it. Money has never been an issue.

Separate from the Hines operation will be a huge play where the post office is now. We're talking 16 acres stretching along the Fort Point canal, dwarfing Hines's six. With any luck, this will alchemize the whole Fort Channel area into something grand.

Stay with me now. An additional six railroad tracks will be built to accommodate increased rail traffic. Whoever ends up as the Postal Service developer will build above them. Nothing happens until the Postal Service is out and in its new digs, which should take at least four years.

"That is not for this economic cycle," says Kairos Shen, the newly appointed chief of planning for Boston, about the Postal Service play. "It will be for the next one."

Whenever the post office annex space is developed, the question is this: How will these two behemoths get along? Will Hines and the player yet to be named be happy neighbors, or Montague and Capulet living cheek to jowl?

That is a valid concern, says Shen: "There needs to be a spacing and rhythm and breathing room for this to work well."

We must never forget that, first and foremost, this is a train station. Most important to its future, then, are the new tracks. How long will they accommodate new rail traffic? Commuter rail traffic rose from 5 million in 1976 to 22 million last year.

So what was the planning timeline for the additional six tracks? Twenty years out, 40 years out? There was none, the MBTA tells me. Wow.

It matters, says Shen, because as more people ditch their cars for public transit, he thinks we'll eventually need even more tracks than planned. The question is when. Oh dear.

[/quote]http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/02/03/tracking_progress/?page=2
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I am curious as to the 5 developers that have interest in the Postal Annex. Has anyone else heard this? Probably to early for any additional info.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

This is what matters to me most


"He's also going to enlarge the bus station and connect it with the train station so that people don't have to brave the elements to get from one to another."

"Stay with me now. An additional six railroad tracks will be built to accommodate increased rail traffic. Whoever ends up as the Postal Service developer will build above them. Nothing happens until the Postal Service is out and in its new digs, which should take at least four years."
 
cabot yards

One thing I never hear mentioned, and this was way back in the 60's? so maybe I'm not right, but when they worked on the Cabot Yards behind south station they put in pilings for to allow for future air-rights above the tracks.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

As I said back in September, there is not sufficeint tenant demand for this deal to proceed in spec. this tower will not break ground in 2008.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

^^^ did u read the article.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

If batterymarch is right about lack of a tower without a tenant?

Perhaps then the MfL {Mayor for Life} and BRA should encourage a rethink of the project

The opportunity to build a Pru-Scale integrated and weather-proof development on the South Station and Postal Annex property shouldn?t be missed

Of course it means more delay and likely nothing ready to go until the next building cycle ? that?s the downside

The upside includes the following:
1) easier construction of the Tower next to Stone and Webster
2) room to build a airy Glass Shed over the platforms ? ideally with clean diesels commuter rail or better still electrified service
3) room for more apartments and hotel rooms over the tracks
4) room for mare tracks
5) water service from Fort Point Channel
6) Pru-like inferior shopping with Street-level access from the re-opened Dorchester Ave
7) Integrated Transportation under one roof {Amtrak, Commuter Rail, Busses, Silver Line, Red Line, Water Service}
8) Wide Sidewalk along the Channel and re-opened ?Dot Ave? ? the ?New Huntington??


Is the above worth the wait of even 10 years? ? I?d argue that it is ? as the Seaport District should be by then be blooming, the Greenway should be greener and DTX should be re-activated with the newly re-opened Filenes Basement ? and maybe there will be ?Tommy?s Tower? above it all

Westy
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

i did read the article and still feel strongly that this tower is a nonstarter in current market. Note that author does not referance source.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I was talking to somebody about this project and the other spec office towers going up, and here's a breakdown:

Russia Wharf - with Wellington taking 100% of the property, this one is going to be built. So roughly 350,000 SF of Wellingston's old space will be coming on the market.

Fan Pier - adding 500,000 SF in this market... Looks like this one is absolutely being built, with no tenants. We're up to 850,000 SF of space now...

Filene's - I can't imagine the Mayor would ever let John Hynes build in this city again if he demolishes the major block of DTX and walks away without building. So 500,000 SF more for office. We're up to 1,350,000 of office space being added to the city.

The South Station Tower is roughly 1M SF and is behind the 8-ball as far as timing goes with these other developments... building it on spec means 2.35M SF office going up without a signed tenant. And South Station Tower doesn't "have" to be built, the way Fan Pier, Russia Wharf and Filene's all have reasons to be built do because no real $$ has been spent on construction yet. Tufts/Hines could just walk away and wait it out for a bit. The others can't.

So will it be built? Well... hard to tell... Fan Pier is an inferior site, it's just a blocky squat lone office building out in windswept parking lot hell. It's not the "minicity" as it's marketed, just a lone builing. Filene's is in DTX, not the Financial District... 33 Arch Street and 101 Arch had a hard enough time convinving tenants that DTX was the Fin. District. This pushes the envelope further... the 350,000 SF in 75 State Street is in a 25 year old building... not new construction.

South Station Tower would be prime, iconic office space in the Financial District (not an ancillary pseudo downtown market) and it'd be right on South Station - a very desirable spot for commuters/employees. So... it's the best of the new as far as rents and demand goes, and if built, would outpace all other new developments in visibility and demand. BUT - the other new construction is already in the ground, rising, and developing relationships with tenants... so makes it tough to justify building this without a tenant. It comes down to how much Tufts/Hines want to gamble. I think they're going to gamble. Starting construction in June could mean the tower opens in 2011 - who can predict what the market will be like then? None of us.
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

Pelhamhall
Very well reasoned analysis of the situation

However -- you left out Tommy?s Tower aka TransNational Place aka Winthrop Square aka a very BIG Building

If it goes up this cycle --as is expected? -- then you can cross the Iconic off the list

That more argues for the fully integrated development with the P.O. property as a central element and that means the P.O. must move and that means the P.O.?s new place needs to be built and that means that you are talking about 5 years from now ? minimum!
 
Re: South Station Tower - Full Steam Ahead!

I don't think anybody believes Winthrop Square will be built in this development cycle. Or ever. A simple analysis of construction costs for something that tall vs. office rents in Boston seems to preclude any possibility of it being built. Plus, there are still legal battles and financing fights ahead... it's not even approved yet. I'd be surprised if that breaks ground in 2009. I think it's impossible for it to do so in 2008. It just is more motivation for Tufts/Hines to get SST in the ground before that building gets close to a ground-breaking.
 

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