South Station Tower | South Station Air Rights | Downtown

Re: South Station Tower

There aren't 1000 units of housing going up in this location. There should not be 1000 parking spots for the hypothetical family that visits relatives in Springfield. Units on top of South station should not have multiple parking spaces. Even offices should have limited parking if they are centered on top of a major transit hub.

And south station as a transit hub should not have parking.
 
Re: South Station Tower

whighlander said:
DigitalSciGuy -- for a complex closing in on the gross square footage of the Pru and conceivably more when the USPS leaves -- with office, residences and hotel -- 1000 cars worth of parking is not a whole lot

And despite your near-maniacal abhorrence of the passenger car -- its not going away anytime soon and that means even inside the city

Consider the family of 2 adults and some kids living in say Chestnut Hill [kinda near the Brady Bunch] wanting to take Amtrak to DC for a weekend at the Smithsonian -- they just might prefer to pile kids and bags into the SUV and drive to South Station and park there rather than say to park at Rt-128 or try to negotiate bags and kids through buses and trains to South Station

e.g. from 92 Glenoe Rd Chestnut Hill MA to South Station -- according to the T


Miss one of those connections by a minute and you might not be able to get on the train to DC tonight
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92 Glenoe Rd - that's as posh a hood as it gets. Anyone living there would have a driver take them to South Station.

Also... no family would pack their bags for a week's trip and then take the Green Line or any public transit to S Station. Two parents and two kids is not saving much money (and definitely not time) from Chestnut Hill or any comparable area by taking the T vs Uber. But I dont think we need that much parking at S Station... If you want to drive, go to 128 or Woburn if youre doing the drive yourself to Amtrak thing.
 
Re: South Station Tower

The excess SST parking is to help alleviate the lack of GE headquarters parking....but it will be a chilly walk across the channel in winter to get to work for them. Shocking what they are doing to those (poor) corporate execs! One space for every 27 employees!
 
Re: South Station Tower

Thanks for proving my point, folks. 1000 spaces (almost) makes sense out at Rt 128/Westwood, not over our largest transit hub downtown. The direct ramp off eastbound I-90 is bad enough; we don't need to further shift the calculus for another potential 1000 people to drive to work/visit here instead of taking transit.
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If our public transportation system wasn't a giant pile of unfixable shit I'd say that's a valid argument. And yes it's unfixable because nobody is interested in paying for it.

As it is - it is just more convenient, more comfortable, and factored with the price of the CR from outer zones a better value prop to drive into the city for office workers. Lets stop pretending we can force people into using transit by making it hard to park in the city because the actual outcome is that offices and workers just end up shifting to locations outside of the city if you make it too hard.
 
Re: South Station Tower

whighlander said:
DigitalSciGuy --

Consider the family of 2 adults and some kids living in say Chestnut Hill [kinda near the Brady Bunch] wanting to take Amtrak to DC for a weekend at the Smithsonian -- they just might prefer to pile kids and bags into the SUV and drive to South Station and park there rather than say to park at Rt-128 or try to negotiate bags and kids through buses and trains to South Station
/QUOTE]

Or they take an Uber/Lyft/whathaveya where they don't have to pay for parking and can take care of their kids without worrying about driving.

This is the future for now. Get on board.
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Re: South Station Tower

meddlepal said:
If our public transportation system wasn't a giant pile of unfixable shit I'd say that's a valid argument. And yes it's unfixable because nobody is interested in paying for it.

As it is - it is just more convenient, more comfortable, and factored with the price of the CR from outer zones a better value prop to drive into the city for office workers. Lets stop pretending we can force people into using transit by making it hard to park in the city because the actual outcome is that offices and workers just end up shifting to locations outside of the city if you make it too hard.
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This.
 
Re: South Station Tower

meddlepal said:
As it is - it is just more convenient, more comfortable, and factored with the price of the CR from outer zones a better value prop to drive into the city for office workers. Lets stop pretending we can force people into using transit by making it hard to park in the city because the actual outcome is that offices and workers just end up shifting to locations outside of the city if you make it too hard.
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Unclear how you draw these conclusions. I have a zone 4, which while I find the latest fare increase excessive, the ticket itself is fairly in line with the cost of monthly parking in a garage by itself. Add in the cost of gas and wear and tear on your car. Insurance rebates for less mileage and mass transit discounts, driving is absolutely not more economical.

Sitting in a seat doing nothing and possibly napping is much more comfortable imho that sitting in traffic with a couple thousand of my favorite massholes everyday.

Convenience varies obviously. The train is very convenient for me and many with set hours. Others are a fairly long ride from the nearest CR stop. Many of them still have the less traffic and parking cost option of parking near the ends of the subway system. Braintree and quincy Adams are still pretty far south of the city and keep people of the SE xpressway. Similarly the other ends do this.

The need to drive downtown isn't as much a real thing as so many rationalize it to be. I'm sure there are examples, but it's not in line with the sentiment above.

The CR's infrequent schedule is one of the things hurting it. Ridership is too low to require higher frequencies or more trains, and many won't ride it because it doesn't run often enough. Somewhat of a catch 22. But, with 11 years now on the CR, I call shenanigans on the above statements.
 
Re: South Station Tower

Thanks.

i look at how they're building elsewhere. We sure have perfected small thinking here in Boston. It's like there's a rule. Every 11th tower can be sorta tall cuz it's gonna be anarchy. Proof: Look how lame the zoning is for the New York Streets.

By that token, i'd be thrilled to see South Station reach even this maximum. Even if just for the sake of having that added rail capacity. I guess i'll just have to wait a few more years, when Boston is truly out of land. Maybe then, a sense of urgency will have kicked on.
 
Re: South Station Tower

odurandina said:
Thanks. We sure have perfected small thinking here in Boston.
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That's just 2D square footage at ground level. Check the next page on the PDF. Those parcels can go a max 26 stories and 2.5 million sq. ft.


Now, "small thinking" is probably going to take its toll on that footage once the BRA and local politics wraps two hands around neck. But MassDOT is certainly serving up one hell of an opportunity facing Dot Ave. if the local institutions care to take full advantage.
 
Re: South Station Tower

SeamusMcFly said:
The need to drive downtown isn't as much a real thing as so many rationalize it to be. I'm sure there are examples, but it's not in line with the sentiment above.

The CR's infrequent schedule is one of the things hurting it. Ridership is too low to require higher frequencies or more trains, and many won't ride it because it doesn't run often enough. Somewhat of a catch 22. But, with 11 years now on the CR, I call shenanigans on the above statements.
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Then why do people still drive into my office building for work (1 Lincoln)
 
Re: South Station Tower

KentXie said:
Then why do people still drive into my office building for work (1 Lincoln)
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???

Did you not read any of Seamus's post immediately before the part you quoted? Or even the second half of the part you quoted?

Some people choose to drive to work in downtown office buildings, but most don't. That will always be the case.

You say "then why do people still drive into my office building" to counter Seamus, but anyone could just as easily say "then why do people still take the train into my office building" to counter you.
 
Re: South Station Tower

Sorry about that I posted that on the wrong Thread.

Probably the only time I have ever read one of your usless comments.
 
Re: South Station Tower

JumboBuc said:
???

Did you not read any of Seamus's post immediately before the part you quoted? Or even the second half of the part you quoted?

Some people choose to drive to work in downtown office buildings, but most don't. That will always be the case.

You say "then why do people still drive into my office building" to counter Seamus, but anyone could just as easily say "then why do people still take the train into my office building" to counter you.
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I stand corrected. I misread the last part of the paragraph and assumed that he saying that the statement by meddle is completely false.
 
Re: South Station Tower

F-Line to Dudley said:
Now, "small thinking" is probably going to take its toll on that footage once the BRA and local politics wraps two hands around neck. But MassDOT is certainly serving up one hell of an opportunity facing Dot Ave. if the local institutions care to take full advantage.
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cleaned up post;

Anything's possible. We should end up with serious residential density along these blocks. The parcels off Kneeland leave much room for optimism.
 
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Re: South Station Tower

I have absolutely idea what's going on in this thread. It's like everyone is replying to imaginary conversations.
 
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