The New Retail Thread

Nero has really good coffee and solid food, not surprising that it's doing well.
 
617 said:
In the Pru where PF changs was?

For Strega - It must be 10 PO sq where Boston private bank is...thought I saw a sign for a restaurant and new lobby there a awhile back.
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Last I heard, a steakhouse was slated to take the former Lannan Model Ship Gallery space at 99 High Street. I am not sure if this is still the current plan given that there are open space for lease banners over the windows.

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/property/blog/2016/11/07/lannan-ship-gallery-moving/
 
Bonobos opening in the Pru next to Under Armour. I wonder if they've outgrown their tiny initial Newbury/Dartmouth shop.
 
On a similar note, what the heck is taking Godiva, Anna's and Dig Inn so long to open in the Pru? This has got to be the slowest build-out of all time.
 
mdd said:
Nero has really good coffee and solid food, not surprising that it's doing well.
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Plus, it's easy to see how well the decor works in attracting people in (at least for the ones I've been to).
 
jl326 said:
Plus, it's easy to see how well the decor works in attracting people in (at least for the ones I've been to).
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Not disagreeing...but let me elaborate...it's a lot more than just the surface-level decor. I find the Caffe Neros to be really inviting places to chill or work/study. There are lots of (and varieties of) seating surfaces and work surfaces. Their cafe layouts make excellent use of the space and can accommodate larger numbers of people much more comfortably than Starbucks' can (for example: Nero make use of well-placed/unobtrusive partitions around tables and seating nooks...include numerous booths, both for 2x and 4x,...and include easy chairs tucked away here & there). Fact is that people are more willing to cram in close together if there are partitions around them.

The historic business argument was that coffee shops didn't want people who only spent a few dollars hanging around all day because it wasn't revenue-generating...

I don't have hard evidence, but I have a hunch Nero's found a way to defeat that model. The many times I've visited them have revealed steady streams of take-out customers (e.g., same as Starbucks) in parallel with a higher density of sit-in customers (e.g., beating Starbucks).

I think it's a win-win for everyone (except Starbucks).

(plus the coffee and food are easily as good or better)
 
I think it's hilarious that people actually buy "food" at Starbucks or Neros. It's all pre-made shrink-wrapped possibly frozen commissary food with an exponential markup. Nothing about it tastes or even looks fresh. Hell, even Starbucks bizarre little cut-apple-and-peanut-butter plates look awful and plasticky - clearly just a way to separate fools from their money. Compare to Tatte or ABP. Actually, you can't. Sad!
 
Shepard said:
I think it's hilarious that people actually buy "food" at Starbucks or Neros. It's all pre-made shrink-wrapped possibly frozen commissary food with an exponential markup. Nothing about it tastes or even looks fresh. Hell, even Starbucks bizarre little cut-apple-and-peanut-butter plates look awful and plasticky - clearly just a way to separate fools from their money. Compare to Tatte or ABP. Actually, you can't. Sad!
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I don't think anyone would argue for the quality of their food, but it's certainly convenient. The few time's I've bought their food I've been in a rush and already getting coffee.
 
FenwayResident said:
I don't think anyone would argue for the quality of their food, but it's certainly convenient. The few time's I've bought their food I've been in a rush and already getting coffee.
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Yeah exactly.

Not at all advocating for trying to get food at places like this (though, yes, Tatte is miles ahead).

The point was purely meant as a comparative one: Nero has figured out how to play Starbucks' game better than they have.
 
Nero is a much more "authentic" ceramic-cup European coffee shop experience (in scare-quotes because it was founded in London in imitation of Italian-style) - whereas Starbucks is much more paper-cup Americanized. I don't expect you'll ever see Nero drive-thrus, for example. Many Starbucks now look and feel little more than like a Dunks stripped of its orange color scheme (and plus a few dowdy baristas)
 
I saw a Starbucks on the south shore with a drive-thru. Plymouth, I believe. It was weird.
 
mdd said:
I saw a Starbucks on the south shore with a drive-thru. Plymouth, I believe. It was weird.
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They are common in other parts of the country...particularly in less dense areas.

Sheppard has a good point: Starbucks & Nero are not trying to be the same thing.

I guess I was specifically thinking of the "where can I go that isn't going to suck in order to finish this PowerPoint" type of market...which is, I believe, a market that other coffee chains don't focus on nurturing b/c people sitting around in your shop for long periods of time isn't revenue-generating...but Nero stands out because they a) have created a more comfortable work/lounge space, and b) seem to be thriving despite (or because of!) that...

Obviously people try to work in coffee shops all the time, but Nero just seems to do a notable job catering to that use case. Honest - I was just trying to elaborate on jl326's comment about "decor"!
 
Starbucks and Nero, no matter how many stores they have and whether they serve in a paper or ceramic cup, at least both serve high-quality coffee. You can't put either in the same boat as Dunks' commodity coffee (that's not an insult to Dunks, it just a fact about how they source and brew their coffee). Starbucks remains synonymous with second-wave coffee, no matter how many stores or drive-thrus they have.
 
bigpicture7 said:
Sheppard has a good point: Starbucks & Nero are not trying to be the same thing.
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Right, and I don't think this is just a product of Nero being new to the market either. In London (Nero's hometown) they are all over the place, but Costa Coffee is the ubiquitous Starbucks substitute while Nero still positions itself as a bit more "exclusive", for lack of a better term.
 
mdd said:
I saw a Starbucks on the south shore with a drive-thru. Plymouth, I believe. It was weird.
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There's a drive-thru at the one on route one in Norwood and also on route one in Walpole. I agree it is weird. I have seen it widespread in areas like Phoenix, Dallas and Atlanta.
 
mdd said:
I saw a Starbucks on the south shore with a drive-thru. Plymouth, I believe. It was weird.
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Was this drive-thru the one with the video screen where you could see Barista who was taking your order? We went thru one last year in Frederick, MD. Unnerving at first to see the person who was taking your order (wasn't expecting that) but also very cool. When I asked to take their picture for Facebook, another five Barista's jumped into the pic!
 
bigpicture7 said:
Not disagreeing...but let me elaborate...it's a lot more than just the surface-level decor. I find the Caffe Neros to be really inviting places to chill or work/study. There are lots of (and varieties of) seating surfaces and work surfaces. Their cafe layouts make excellent use of the space and can accommodate larger numbers of people much more comfortably than Starbucks' can (for example: Nero make use of well-placed/unobtrusive partitions around tables and seating nooks...include numerous booths, both for 2x and 4x,...and include easy chairs tucked away here & there). Fact is that people are more willing to cram in close together if there are partitions around them.

The historic business argument was that coffee shops didn't want people who only spent a few dollars hanging around all day because it wasn't revenue-generating...

I don't have hard evidence, but I have a hunch Nero's found a way to defeat that model. The many times I've visited them have revealed steady streams of take-out customers (e.g., same as Starbucks) in parallel with a higher density of sit-in customers (e.g., beating Starbucks).

I think it's a win-win for everyone (except Starbucks).

(plus the coffee and food are easily as good or better)
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Yes, pretty much what I had in mind with "decor" but you pretty much elaborated (very well) on my 5-second mobile response :).
 
mdd said:
I saw a Starbucks on the south shore with a drive-thru. Plymouth, I believe. It was weird.
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My location is Scituate. (Yes, I know........not much urbanity, but it is very beautiful.) Anyway, I pretty much go to Starbuck's almost everyday in Cohasset. They have a drive-through window as well as nearby Marshfield and Hanover. I have refused to use the drive-through at any of these locations because they usually get the order wrong. Meanwhile, the mobile ordering on the Starbuck's app is awesome, and I never have an issue with the 30 seconds it takes to park and run in to pick up the order.

Speaking of Cafe Nero. I "discovered" them several years ago while in London, before they started having babies all over the Boston area. (I kind of wish I had bought stock!)

I do think they are much better than Starbuck's, not only for the food but for the architecture and atmosphere that has been mentioned above. New locations are planned for Newbury Street and South Boston soon. They really seem to be growing quickly in this area before venturing beyond Greater Boston. If I thought I could entice them to open in Scituate along the harbor, I certainly would. However, the foot traffic and demand is just not there yet.

One last ramble...........speaking of coffee, South Shore, and Scituate..........there is an amazing coffee place that I would highly recommend. It's literally over the harbor on a building that was used as Cher's store in the "Witches of Eastwick" many years ago. It's like a little slice of Provincetown right on the South Shore.

https://www.luckyfinncafe.com/

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaur...nWidth=50&cnt=30&offset=-1&filter=7&autoplay=

I will usually try to give my business to local and independent places, but as mentioned above, the chains do have their conveniences. For me, the mobile ordering and convenience of Starbuck's is a strong selling point. However, if there was a Cafe Nero on the South Shore, it might get my business.
 
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