The St Regis Residences (former Whiskey Priest site) | 150 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

[odurandina]

The CLF litigated the future of mankind for 2 years & got 11 Globe feature stories over that?

Those who support the CLF's frivolous lawsuits have lost their collective minds.

 

[jl326]

The CLF litigated the future of mankind for 2 years & got 11 Globe feature stories over that?

Those who support the CLF's frivolous lawsuits have lost their collective minds.

*Cough* Sicilian *Cough*

The CLF is made up of a bunch of human rain delays

 

[JANAM]

*Cough* Sicilian *Cough*

The CLF is made up of a bunch of human rain delays

Nope, there's a big difference between a neighborhood advocate/activist and a privately financed 'non-profit' being used to enforce a misguided billionaire's development plans for our City.

 

[jl326]

Nope, there's a big difference between a neighborhood advocate/activist and a privately financed 'non-profit' being used to enforce a misguided billionaire's development plans for our City.

I didn't mean to imply that he is part of the CLF, but that he is clearly a supporter.

 

[statler]

I wonder what the price per sq foot of these developments would be if there were still pools of human feces floating around in the harbor? I wonder if it even would have worth it to build them or if they would still be abandon rail yards and parking lots.

 

[bigpicture7]

I wonder what the price per sq foot of these developments would be if there were still pools of human feces floating around in the harbor? I wonder if it even would have worth it to build them or if they would still be abandon rail yards and parking lots.

Stat, 100% with you on the criticality of environmental protection. But you know who else's $/square foot of pre-existing waterfront property benefits both from reduced floating feces AND limiting the waterfront housing supply? You know who.

Let's not pretend the CLF's benefactors are free of conflict of interest.

But, again, environmental protection is vital. It is inconvenient that we don't have a simple narrative to identify the good guys and bad guys. The world is much messier than that.

 

[Scott]

I wonder what the price per sq foot of these developments would be if there were still pools of human feces floating around in the harbor? I wonder if it even would have worth it to build them or if they would still be abandon rail yards and parking lots.

I wonder too. Clearly the Seaport is successful because it is not located next to an open sewer. I believe the Big Dig and the harbor clean up are both the major factors in the Seaport's success

Edit: should have said the whole city's success, not just Seaport, and that the MWRA ratepayer, not any particular group deserves our gratitude

 

[HalcyonEra]

I wonder what the price per sq foot of these developments would be if there were still pools of human feces floating around in the harbor? I wonder if it even would have worth it to build them or if they would still be abandon rail yards and parking lots.

Just because an organization did something great 40 years ago doesn't mean it is still doing great things today.

 

[Rover]

Just because an organization did something great 40 years ago doesn't mean it is still doing great things today.

Agree completely. Clearly they've lost their way from an environmental advocacy organization which they were very good at to a NIMBY outfit doing the bidding of an aging billionaire.

Beyond time for the Feds to take a look at them. You can't threaten to sue projects with frivolous lawsuits in order to shake down developers. That's an extortion racket, not a civic minded non-profit.

Its also funny to see them getting absolutely slammed in the Glob comments section regarding the power plant project. If you can't win over that audience you're SOL!

 

[atlantaden]

https://newbostonpost.com/2016/04/19/boston-harbor-once-dirtiest-now-clean-agency-tells-judge/

A brief history of the harbor clean-up.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Who's the billionaire people are mentioning behind the CLF? I'm not familiar

 

[Sicilian]

*Cough* Sicilian *Cough*

The CLF is made up of a bunch of human rain delays

You calling me out before I've even commented? For the record, I've been advocating for a *minimum* of 10,000 housing units on the SB Waterfront since 1997. And supported upwards of 30msf of new construction during "planning." Well documented.

While I'm generally supportive of CLF's work on the Boston waterfront, I'm no NIMBY. Just interested in land meeting potential, that's all.

But is this you, jl326?

Because it sounds like you:

What's the dictionary definition of NIMBYism?

https://www.reddit.com/user/jl326

 

[odurandina]

Who's the billionaire people are mentioning behind the CLF? I'm not familiar

Amos Hostetter;

all posturing because he's in the Harbor Garage neighborhood.

And for some reason doesn't understand he'll be dead by the time the tower begins rising.

Guess he just doesn't want the Tonka Trucks digging up the site.

 

[jl326]

Since you took the time to dig up posts/quotes, there should be some context there, lest there be any misunderstanding.

You calling me out before I've even commented? For the record, I've been advocating for a *minimum* of 10,000 housing units on the SB Waterfront since 1997. And supported upwards of 30msf of new construction during "planning." Well documented.

While I'm generally supportive of CLF's work on the Boston waterfront, I'm no NIMBY. Just interested in land meeting potential, that's all.

But is this you, jl326?

JL326: Yes, that's me. This was in response to the question posed:
"Can we have a honest show of hands - how many homeowners here would want a low income housing project built next door to them? I know it’s easy to criticize others for not being progressive enough, but would you be any different when your own wallet is being threatened?"

And there above you have my response and opinion. I'm all for more housing. I really like the developments like Regis and Echelon going up for example. The response above was specific to a low income housing project.


Because it sounds like you:

JL326: Nice job not including the title of the thread out of the screenshot. This was a post under the Reddit thread: "Boston, make fun of your neighborhood in a sentence." It's self-depreciating humor. Go through the other posts on the thread as well.

What's the dictionary definition of NIMBYism?

https://www.reddit.com/user/jl326

JL326: You can call anyone a NIMBY for any number of reasons, it just has a negative stigma to it. One who opposes a landfill to be set next to their "backyard" is also a NIMBY, but doesn't mean that its an unreasonable opposition. You need to add context to it. Practically speaking, how would you justify CLF's long opposition to the Regis development (housing)? By saying that the development detracts from public access to the waterfront where none existed in the first place when WP and ABG were there?

 

[Sicilian]

Practically speaking, how would you justify CLF's long opposition to the Regis development (housing)? By saying that the development detracts from public access to the waterfront where none existed in the first place when WP and ABG were there?

I'm not going to dredge up the history of this project here. The standards for what passes muster in most of these AB posts is troubling, because it matches exactly what passes muster in my neighborhoood.

But at least let's get the facts straight. No public access existed because neither BPDA nor DEP cared about public access laws when WP and ABG were built, nor did they enforce public access provisions on remaining exterior space after the projects were built. WB and ABG were non-compliant. Secondly, 150 Seaport will occupy a significant amount of (formerly) public space, both over Harbor and public land. BPDA was prepared to sell air rights for $50,0000 until that sweet deal saw some sunlight. So it's irrelevant to state it's better than it was before. The "better than a parking lot" standard, most often cited during approvals, is a bit of parochial logic that fails to recognize potential.

From my observation having attended meetings, CLF probably would've never engaged in the process had BPDA not carried the developer's water during the *entire* Municipal Harbor Plan amendment process. Boston Harbor Now's former exec. director made a number of suggestions to improve the ground floor and Harborwalk access, and everyone (CLF likely among them) was monitoring progress. Requests were reasonable, at most BHN was suggesting a haircut on the west-facing facade would open the existing HarborWalk alignment to Pier 4. BPDA dismissed every one of BHN's comments and concerns offhand. That's a fact.

Everyone knows what went on at this site, and it had nothing to do with whether or not the project was capable of improving. 2,500+ comment letters sent to BPDA in favor of a luxury condo tells you all you need to know about how the deck was stacked. How many comment letters arrived at BPDA in support of 50 Liberty?

 

[bigpicture7]

Sicilian,
Thanks for that perspective. As someone who cares about environmental protection, public waterfront access, and dispersing with the corrupt old boys network in the Boston development realm, I appreciate hearing from someone who has spent a lot more time following this than me.

That said, my main beef with the CLF based on my admittedly superficial following of what goes on in the news (and as perpetuated by the less-than-perfect Globe) is the the horrendous optics of their governance. Multiple people involved are wealthy waterfront owners. A solid public interest advocacy group needs to do a MUCH better job managing conflicts of interest and establishing credibility if they want people to feel for their side of the story. (And for all I know, things aren't as bad as they seem - but the fact that a layperson perceives them as such is not acceptable for a group that wants to be credible with the public). I am not taking away from their past achievements.

On the flipside, Joe Cronin is a start-from-nothing / everyone in Southie knows him type of person. The CLF found themselves up against someone the public could empathize with more than them - something they perhaps didn't face before. That all the more exacerbates the need for good optics and credibility on their end.

 

[odurandina]

Secondly, 150 Seaport will occupy a significant amount of (formerly) public space, both over Harbor and public land. BPDA was prepared to sell air rights for $50,0000 until that sweet deal saw some sunlight. So it's irrelevant to state it's better than it was before. The "better than a parking lot" standard, most often cited during approvals, is a bit of parochial logic that fails to recognize potential.

i'm probably an obtuse asshole. But, frankly, what about Public Access?

Boston is off the charts for public access. There's no reason to go to war over 150 Seaport just because the streetwall abuts a slim section of Harbor Walk for 129 feet. How about we maintain perspective and just look at it from the before vs after.

I'll put Boston's park experience up against anyone's. Millennium Park is wayy out of the way. In Boston it's all right here. May i suggest a kayak? Surfing at Plum Island, NH or the Cape?

If you need a park, might i suggest a few quiet afternoons on Walden Pond or the Decordova Museum? Boston is a measly 48 sq mi of New England. There's a whole world of windswept beaches, hills and trails for you to explore.

Might i also suggest the Grand Tetons/Yellowstone/ Utah/ Montana/ Wyoming/ Idaho/ Tahoe/ Truckee/ spring/summer/fall/winter. Then; my all time fave; Colorado.

Yes, confirmed asshole; But, there's some sick terrain out there.

 

[bigpicture7]

Sicilian,
Thanks for that perspective. As someone who cares about environmental protection, public waterfront access, and dispersing with the corrupt old boys network in the Boston development realm, I appreciate hearing from someone who has spent a lot more time following this than me.

That said, my main beef with the CLF based on my admittedly superficial following of what goes on in the news (and as perpetuated by the less-than-perfect Globe) is the the horrendous optics of their governance. Multiple people involved are wealthy waterfront owners. A solid public interest advocacy group needs to do a MUCH better job managing conflicts of interest and establishing credibility if they want people to feel for their side of the story. (And for all I know, things aren't as bad as they seem - but the fact that a layperson perceives them as such is not acceptable for a group that wants to be credible with the public). I am not taking away from their past achievements.

On the flipside, Joe Cronin is a start-from-nothing / everyone in Southie knows him type of person. The CLF found themselves up against someone the public could empathize with more than them - something they perhaps didn't face before. That all the more exacerbates the need for good optics and credibility on their end.

Let me be more humble, direct, and open-minded:

I am seriously asking those in-the-know if I am way off base on this. How is CLF's governance in terms of not being/appearing to be a cause-for-the-priveleged:
For instance: if they are all about community waterfront access, do they actually have (non-rich and low-income) community members on their board (and from diverse neighborhoods)? Do they have a recusal policy for those who stand to personally profit from certain initiatives (e.g., the Municipal Waterfront Plan, which directly affects property values of people involved in the CLF)?

In seriousness: set me straight if I'm wrong. I want to be wrong here.

If they have these things, though, they need to do a better job with PR/community relations so people become aware - and are open/welcome to get involved if they want to.

 

[atlantaden]

Secondly, 150 Seaport will occupy a significant amount of (formerly) public space, both over Harbor and public land.

This I don't understand. The formerly public space that 150 Seaport will occupy, what exactly public land are you referring?

 

[bigpicture7]

This I don't understand. The formerly public space that 150 Seaport will occupy, what exactly public land are you referring?

By law in Massachusetts, no one can own coastal land. Waterfront must be accessible to the public. So those original structures @ 150 seaport weren't supposed to have been built the way they were; hence the harborwalk buffer you are seeing between all new structures and the water. (and hence the harborwalk that will be added around the new 150 seaport structure).

I think s/he's also referring to a chunk of sidewalk the city was going to sell them at an undervalued price before it was caught and more appropriately valuated.