Underground station layouts

guitarguynboston

Active Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
107
Reaction score
105
I don't think I ever knew when they buried the Green Line at North Station that the tunnel was built under the Commuter Rail tracks.

Awesome Job @The EGE
 

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
6,444
Reaction score
1,310
That tunnel and storage yard was built as part of the TD Garden parking garage, way back in '95.
Yeah, in total tunneling feet the '95 provision is about 2x as long as the 2004 Haymarket connector and Science Park incline completion links.
 

devnull

New member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Regarding that tunnel, I always thought it was a shame that trains have to slow down so much for the curves. Given it's so new relative to the rest of the green line tunnels, could they have designed it differently so trains could keep up speed? (Or were there already obstacles in the way when they were building the tunnel?)

Also, it seems wasteful that outbound trains from north station to science park usually come to a stop along the curve too (although maybe that could be something we could improve with signal improvements?)
 

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
6,444
Reaction score
1,310
Regarding that tunnel, I always thought it was a shame that trains have to slow down so much for the curves. Given it's so new relative to the rest of the green line tunnels, could they have designed it differently so trains could keep up speed? (Or were there already obstacles in the way when they were building the tunnel?)

Also, it seems wasteful that outbound trains from north station to science park usually come to a stop along the curve too (although maybe that could be something we could improve with signal improvements?)
It's because the Old Garden + another tall building next door that used to be scrunched across the corner of Beverly were still standing when the New Garden was built. They didn't have any means of curve-easing around the incumbent structures, so when New Garden was built the basement had to bake the tight curve in.

Now...on the stopwatch the new alignment is still a lot faster than the old Causeway St. El. The El used to have three curves: two 90-degree street-contoured turns (Canal @ Causeway and Causeway @ Lomasney) that were each absolutely brutal...then a medium-speed S-curve (moderately curved on the leading end, very mildly curved on the back end) from Lomasney to Martha Rd. for the Science Park hookup. The new alignment entirely eliminates the sharp middle curve and mashes all the remainders into the hook under Nashua St. between the yard alignment and SP portal alignment. So on-balance what you've got now is way better and more efficient than what was there before: the first sharp curve more or less 1:1 with before because of the construction contours, the second sharp curve completely eliminated, and the S-curve into Lechmere Viaduct now consolidated into less overall invasive single-point curve.
 

Wash

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
85
Reaction score
28
Looking at this video (linked below: skip to 30 minutes or so in for the film of the trip from Haymarket over the old El), it seems that even if North Station-Science Park is slightly slower on the new alignment, North Station/Haymarket is SIGNIFICANTLY faster.

(Also, this channel uploaded some of the best footage I've seen yet of a trip over the old Washington Street El, if that's interesting to anyone).

 

ceo

Active Member
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
311
Reaction score
131
Not to mention the rather steep portal has been eliminated too.
I believe the "new" incline to Science Park is the steepest grade on the entire MBTA system. Don't know if it's steeper than the old Canal St incline though.
 
Last edited:

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
6,444
Reaction score
1,310
I believe the "new" incline to Science Park is the steepest grade on the entire MBTA system. Don't know if it's steeper than the old Canal St incline though.
Comparable. Canal St. was wicked steep.
 

bip05

New member
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
8

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
772
Reaction score
576

stefal

Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
945
Reaction score
520
Those are impressive, though I notice it's missing the city hall entrance at State...
On the website they note they didn't develop these in person, rather by Wikimedia Commons (which to me makes this even more impressive, not knowing/visualizing how these stations are laid out), so a mistake like this isn't surprising. Some of the European models are more accurate and detailed since they were sketched in situ.
 

The EGE

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
406
At long last, a new one: Chinatown. Quite a bit of non-public areas are intact: the Hayward Place and Lagrange Street entrances (planned for reopening with new elevators), the Essex Street entrance that was closed around 1977 (I think..), and the never-used sub-passage.

Would anyone be able to get me a photo of the fire alarm diagram for Tufts Medical Center? It's in the Tremont Street entrance inside fare control. Others that I need are Alewife, Davis, Porter, Roxbury Crossing, Stony Brook, Green Street, Quincy Center, and Quincy Adams. Tufts Medical Center is definitely the one I need most, though.

Chinatown.png
 

bakgwailo

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
76
TIL, there is an old entrance next to the Glass Slipper/under Centerfolds. Kind of neat? So eventually, Essex St will be the only closed entrance? Wonder if they would ever look at reopening that (along with the under pass).
 

The EGE

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
406
Correct. I doubt either the Essex entrance or the sub-passage will ever be re-opened. The passage is waaay non-accessible, and very narrow (about 7 feet) by modern standards. Unlike the Symphony and Boylston underpasses that lasted into the postwar decline, this passage was apparently never opened to the public; with entrances right across the street, there's not as much use. And the Essex entrance is less than 80 feet walking from the Washington entrance.

I could see there eventually being a second west entrance in the plaza in front of the library. That would give headhouses on all four corners, and be a less awkward entrance from the west than the existing southbound headhouse.
 

The EGE

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
820
Reaction score
406
A little bonus: I took this photo of the interior of the closed Essex Street entrance last July. I slid my camera into the crack above the door, turned on the flash, and hoped.

The map dates from 1977 - Oak Grove is open, but Kendall hasn't got the MIT postfix and Harvard/Brattle hasn't yet opened. The paint was a hallmark of 1970s modernizations - orange/red stripes were for inbound, green/blue for outbound. You can still see it at some stations that haven't received major overhauls since the 1970s; Sullivan, Community College, Haymarket (Green), and Arlington are notable examples. In this case, the paint was just a cosmetic application over the original tilework; while the southbound side was modernized in the late 1970s, the northbound side didn't get major work until 1986-87.

Now look closer at the wall behind the map. You can see part of the original ESSEX tilework, and a few letters from the old destination board. (A matching southbound sign was intact at the disused Lagrange Street entrance at least until recently.

 

bakgwailo

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
1,001
Reaction score
76
Correct. I doubt either the Essex entrance or the sub-passage will ever be re-opened. The passage is waaay non-accessible, and very narrow (about 7 feet) by modern standards. Unlike the Symphony and Boylston underpasses that lasted into the postwar decline, this passage was apparently never opened to the public; with entrances right across the street, there's not as much use. And the Essex entrance is less than 80 feet walking from the Washington entrance.

I could see there eventually being a second west entrance in the plaza in front of the library. That would give headhouses on all four corners, and be a less awkward entrance from the west than the existing southbound headhouse.
I was thinking a head house would make sense on that corner, too, at some point. Kind of a shame for the Essex entrance. I don't think you can really have too much access to station, especially if it is already there. Saving that 50' might be convenient enough to persuade someone to hop on the T than an Uber.

BTW, awesome pic, thank you for sharing.
 

Top