What would you do to get the T out of its financial mess?
- Thread starter armpitsOFmight
- Start date
MBTA to Hold Public Hearings on Proposed Fare Hikes, Service Cuts
The MBTA is holding public meetings to discuss their proposed fare hikes and service cuts. Please review the proposed fare increases and service reductions detailed on the MBTA website and provide your feedback by attending one of the public meetings.
Please note: on Monday, Jan. 23, two public meetings will be held from 1-3 p.m. and 4:30-6:30 p.m. in Boston at the Transportation Building, 10 Park Plaza, 2nd floor Conference Rooms 2 and 3.
You also may submit your comments electronically at the MBTA website www.mbta.com, by email at fareproposal@mbta.com, or by phone at (617) 222-3200, TTY (617) 222-5146. Written comments will also be accepted through March 1, and should be mailed to: MBTA, 10 Park Plaza, Boston, MA 02116, Attention: Fare Proposal Committee.
We encourage T customers to attend one of the public workshops to share your comments and discuss your suggestions with MBTA officials. The public hearings are being held in communities across the state. A complete list of public meetings is listed on their website. Comments at all meetings will be considered by MBTA for further action.
TranSComm encourages all T customers to take an active role.
The MBTA is holding public meetings to discuss their proposed fare hikes and service cuts. Please review the proposed fare increases and service reductions detailed on the MBTA website and provide your feedback by attending one of the public meetings.
Please note: on Monday, Jan. 23, two public meetings will be held from 1-3 p.m. and 4:30-6:30 p.m. in Boston at the Transportation Building, 10 Park Plaza, 2nd floor Conference Rooms 2 and 3.
You also may submit your comments electronically at the MBTA website www.mbta.com, by email at fareproposal@mbta.com, or by phone at (617) 222-3200, TTY (617) 222-5146. Written comments will also be accepted through March 1, and should be mailed to: MBTA, 10 Park Plaza, Boston, MA 02116, Attention: Fare Proposal Committee.
We encourage T customers to attend one of the public workshops to share your comments and discuss your suggestions with MBTA officials. The public hearings are being held in communities across the state. A complete list of public meetings is listed on their website. Comments at all meetings will be considered by MBTA for further action.
TranSComm encourages all T customers to take an active role.
Commuting Boston Student
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,168
- Reaction score
- 1
I'm new to this discussion (and judging by the date stamps on the posts a page back, very late to the discussion), but here's what I'd do.
I'd knock down all of the toll booths on the Pike, and replace them with Open road tolling stations. Cash will no longer be accepted anywhere on the Pike - if you don't have a transponder already, don't worry! Automatic number plate recognition can also be used to mail you the bill for your toll, a system already in use in Florida (where it's known as TOLL-BY-PLATE. Yes, with the caps.) You will, of course, be charged additionally for the service and as an incentive to pick up a transponder.
After a few months to show that yes, this system works a whole hell of a lot better than the tool booths we've got now (seriously. The most annoying thing about fast lane is slowing down to 15 mph to go through it, right? Not so here!) and doesn't even require us to staff toll booths, I'd have Open Road Tolling stations added to every entrance and exit to the Big Dig tunnels of 93. You would pay once to get on, and once more to get off.
I'd also hike individual ride fares, but leave the monthly passes alone as an incentive to buy. I'd implement the technology that we know the MBTA has already to let them load 1-day daily passes onto a CharlieCard at any ticket vending machine in any given station, just like the monthly passes can be and are. (The 7-day weekly pass would either be discontinued, or become impossible to buy on either a CharlieTicket or CharlieCard except through pass offices, as the trade-off for it being much cheaper than seven 1-day passes.) As long as we're talking about the CharlieCard, make it possible to load commuter rail monthly passes onto the CharlieCard as well.
Bus services will be slashed (including and especially the Silver Line. It comes back as a light rail or it doesn't come back at all), but commuter rail and subway services will be increased in exchange. Run new commuter rail lines out to the folks in Western Mass., and charge everything west of Worcester as a Zone 9 (and beyond) stop. (That last part is probably just my annoyance as a southern Rhode Island resident with the fact that the only Zone 9 station in existence is T.F. Green, and the commuter rail zone fare map posted at Back Bay seems to hint that Wickford Junction will become the first and only Zone 10 stop.) Maybe run new subway lines or subway branches to replace some of the slashed bus service as well.
Yes, it's dramatic and expensive, but I believe that you need to spend money to make money. Ultimately, the huge initial cost of doing these things will be quickly offset by increased ridership and new revenue from tolling the Big Dig.
I'd knock down all of the toll booths on the Pike, and replace them with Open road tolling stations. Cash will no longer be accepted anywhere on the Pike - if you don't have a transponder already, don't worry! Automatic number plate recognition can also be used to mail you the bill for your toll, a system already in use in Florida (where it's known as TOLL-BY-PLATE. Yes, with the caps.) You will, of course, be charged additionally for the service and as an incentive to pick up a transponder.
After a few months to show that yes, this system works a whole hell of a lot better than the tool booths we've got now (seriously. The most annoying thing about fast lane is slowing down to 15 mph to go through it, right? Not so here!) and doesn't even require us to staff toll booths, I'd have Open Road Tolling stations added to every entrance and exit to the Big Dig tunnels of 93. You would pay once to get on, and once more to get off.
I'd also hike individual ride fares, but leave the monthly passes alone as an incentive to buy. I'd implement the technology that we know the MBTA has already to let them load 1-day daily passes onto a CharlieCard at any ticket vending machine in any given station, just like the monthly passes can be and are. (The 7-day weekly pass would either be discontinued, or become impossible to buy on either a CharlieTicket or CharlieCard except through pass offices, as the trade-off for it being much cheaper than seven 1-day passes.) As long as we're talking about the CharlieCard, make it possible to load commuter rail monthly passes onto the CharlieCard as well.
Bus services will be slashed (including and especially the Silver Line. It comes back as a light rail or it doesn't come back at all), but commuter rail and subway services will be increased in exchange. Run new commuter rail lines out to the folks in Western Mass., and charge everything west of Worcester as a Zone 9 (and beyond) stop. (That last part is probably just my annoyance as a southern Rhode Island resident with the fact that the only Zone 9 station in existence is T.F. Green, and the commuter rail zone fare map posted at Back Bay seems to hint that Wickford Junction will become the first and only Zone 10 stop.) Maybe run new subway lines or subway branches to replace some of the slashed bus service as well.
Yes, it's dramatic and expensive, but I believe that you need to spend money to make money. Ultimately, the huge initial cost of doing these things will be quickly offset by increased ridership and new revenue from tolling the Big Dig.
Shepard
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2009
- Messages
- 3,518
- Reaction score
- 66
Welcome, CBS! Thanks for sharing the thoughts.
I sympathize with your thought to grow the CR, coming as you do from RI, but you'll see a lot of antipathy around these boards to spending scarce capital dollars on suburban improvements that typically bring in a few hundred new riders - rather than extend the subway lines (as legally obligated) or make needed improvements to the network which will impact hundreds of thousands of riders. Definitely, cutting core bus routes like SL Washington to grow the CR is a bad trade off.
I couldn't agree more about tolling the Big Dig. It's incredible that this wasn't the original plan.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying in terms of restructuring fares. I would a) remove all fare gates and related staff in favor of a proof-of-purchase system, and b) eliminate one way fares system-wide by requiring all riders to have a pass - at minimum a daily pass for $5. This will grow revenue while at the same time increasing system utilization.
I sympathize with your thought to grow the CR, coming as you do from RI, but you'll see a lot of antipathy around these boards to spending scarce capital dollars on suburban improvements that typically bring in a few hundred new riders - rather than extend the subway lines (as legally obligated) or make needed improvements to the network which will impact hundreds of thousands of riders. Definitely, cutting core bus routes like SL Washington to grow the CR is a bad trade off.
I couldn't agree more about tolling the Big Dig. It's incredible that this wasn't the original plan.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying in terms of restructuring fares. I would a) remove all fare gates and related staff in favor of a proof-of-purchase system, and b) eliminate one way fares system-wide by requiring all riders to have a pass - at minimum a daily pass for $5. This will grow revenue while at the same time increasing system utilization.
Commuting Boston Student
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,168
- Reaction score
- 1
Glad to be here.
I think growing the CR becomes a more valuable or worthwhile proposition when you look at things five or ten years out from the initial expansion - sure, it requires a bit of a leap of faith, but I believe that it would be far more attractive to potential businesses to build out in Western Mass along the new lines if you do so.
I'd much rather see the Silver Line Washington (and the other Silver Lines) become a light rail line. It's interesting that there's a legal obligation to expand the subway - I didn't know that, and now I'm wondering if that's why the Silver Line was added to the subway maps and why the MBTA continues to try and convince me that no, really, BRT isn't just a bus with a peculiar gimmick, but I digress. Since there is a legal obligation to expand the subway system, I'll change my idea slightly and suggest replacing high-volume core bus routes with light rail lines wherever possible. I believe there's also some kind of mandates against new surface level tracks however, and burying the hypothetical light rail lines would involve digging up half the city, so that may not exactly be technically feasible. Elevated rail, perhaps?
If you ask me, it should be a required part of any huge Big Dig-esque road construction packages (such as the I-Way in RI) to include some manner of tolling on the new roads - and I mean, the new roads themselves. You want to use the expensive new infrastructure, you get to help pay for it. Of course, you and I both know how well a proposal like that would actually go over.
When you say proof-of-purchase system, I'm assuming you refer to the system in use on the edges of the Green Line where you tap your CharlieCard after getting on the train? I'm hesitant to support such an idea, since all my experiences with that system have been poor at best.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
Folks -- there is nothing inherently more moral about any form of transportation -- what is however immoral is forcing someone to take one form of transportation to please some planners' whims
The function of the transportation planner is to provide: the commuter, the retired, the student, the visitor --- with the various travel options to enable a successful economy and good quality of life
In different times and places the mix of walking, driving, riding, will evolve under the constraints of geography, geology, demography, etc. to either enable the region to succeed or fade into obscurity
In the case of the Greater Boston Economic Region the approximately 5 M people need a mix which includes:
a) micro commutes (1 mile or less) typically by walking and biking and in some cases driving or riding transit
b) min commutes (<5 miles) typically riding a bus or a rail transit vehicle some biking
c) standard commutes (<15 miles) typically driving, riding rail transit, or combination
d) extended commutes (<25 miles) typically driving or riding rail transit or combination
e) regional commutes (<100 miles) typically riding raid transit when available
The ultimate limitation of the rail transit is the vehicle is locked to the rail network. Boston developed a very effective means of using a combination of light, heavy and commuter rail configured to bring people to a central nexus from residential areas using a roughly radial system of rails
The problem is that today only about 10% of the region live within the central core and only about 20% work in the central core -- thus 75 to 80% of the commutes are extra the central core and some subsidiary close in cores -- Despite our fervent wishes -- NO rail-based system can replace the automobile in this situation
A grid can cover the area -- but outside of the central core there is not enough density
A hub and spokes such as in existence can bring in the minority of people desiring access to the core -- but it can not meet the needs of those people living and working outside the core
Thus for the foreseeable future highways, subways, bike paths, commuter rail lines and even waterways will have to find a way to coexist and even to cooperate in delivering the residents and visitors to their desired destinations
That said -- there are things which can be done better -- I'd start with the Open Road Tolling on all highways penetrating into the I-495 outer loop and a similar set of tolls for all highways penetrating the I-95/Rt-128 inner loop
The money collected from these tolls + the fares from transit riders and bicycle licensing fees should all go into the DOT fund and be used to meet the travel requirements of all
The function of the transportation planner is to provide: the commuter, the retired, the student, the visitor --- with the various travel options to enable a successful economy and good quality of life
In different times and places the mix of walking, driving, riding, will evolve under the constraints of geography, geology, demography, etc. to either enable the region to succeed or fade into obscurity
In the case of the Greater Boston Economic Region the approximately 5 M people need a mix which includes:
a) micro commutes (1 mile or less) typically by walking and biking and in some cases driving or riding transit
b) min commutes (<5 miles) typically riding a bus or a rail transit vehicle some biking
c) standard commutes (<15 miles) typically driving, riding rail transit, or combination
d) extended commutes (<25 miles) typically driving or riding rail transit or combination
e) regional commutes (<100 miles) typically riding raid transit when available
The ultimate limitation of the rail transit is the vehicle is locked to the rail network. Boston developed a very effective means of using a combination of light, heavy and commuter rail configured to bring people to a central nexus from residential areas using a roughly radial system of rails
The problem is that today only about 10% of the region live within the central core and only about 20% work in the central core -- thus 75 to 80% of the commutes are extra the central core and some subsidiary close in cores -- Despite our fervent wishes -- NO rail-based system can replace the automobile in this situation
A grid can cover the area -- but outside of the central core there is not enough density
A hub and spokes such as in existence can bring in the minority of people desiring access to the core -- but it can not meet the needs of those people living and working outside the core
Thus for the foreseeable future highways, subways, bike paths, commuter rail lines and even waterways will have to find a way to coexist and even to cooperate in delivering the residents and visitors to their desired destinations
That said -- there are things which can be done better -- I'd start with the Open Road Tolling on all highways penetrating into the I-495 outer loop and a similar set of tolls for all highways penetrating the I-95/Rt-128 inner loop
The money collected from these tolls + the fares from transit riders and bicycle licensing fees should all go into the DOT fund and be used to meet the travel requirements of all
How dare you suggest that downgrading highways and replacing them with trains no one will use!
JohnAKeith
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,320
- Reaction score
- 63
You'd think with all the professional sports celebrations that suburbanites would want the city to have a well-funded subway and rail system. If I have to hear one more "dere were 90,000 of us guys at Government Centa and we had to wait forty-five friggin' minutes to get da train to 'rica" I'll scream.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
John -- at least you should mention 1st Night, Fireworks 4th and the sports celebrations -- I'd say that in the best case that the T has to do Superhuman service 25 - 30 Times per decade with the sports celebrations, Tall Ships and something else responsible for the 5 to 10 and 20 being the annual 1st and 4th Celebrations
Its very hard to make a case for something that is used only a fraction of 1% of the time. I'd have to say that given the current demographics and employment patterns -- that the T is properly sized and structured to meet the demand 97% of the time.
As F-line has stated -- that after the completion of the currently planned expansion to Medford & Assembly Sq. and the rebuilds of a few Government Center and a couple of other stations with some track work -- that then only a few tweaks will be needed to optimize the system to meet its current demand without an extensive and extremely expensive redesign and reconstruction / expansion
Of course the above ignores: major growth to the SPID; major growth associated with Haaaahvd in Exile (aka Alston); or a Resort Casino on the Blue Line -- then things may need to be seriously re-evaluated
Commuting Boston Student
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,168
- Reaction score
- 1
Something like a Resort Casino on the Blue Line would be the perfect jumping off point for a pretty near-to-complete overhaul to the system, I think.
You're never going to have quite as much of an opportunity as you would right then to grab a huge wad of cash (from the Resort Casino looking to build, build, build!) and do more or less whatever you wanted with it.
Have any of the potential casino locations been solidly nailed down yet? That's the important question. Well, that, and "is a casino in/near Boston an idea that draws serious interest, or a pipe dream?"
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
Can we cal you CBS for short?
Magnitude of the "contribution" which can be expected by the Urban Boston Casino developer is of the order of building a station -- much as what is being done as part of Assembly Sq.
However, given as there will be several thousand employees who could benefit from transit access to the venue -- I think the Blue Line to Lynn could be jump-started by the process
Nothing is certain -- but given as the current House Speaker and the Mayor of Boston both support the development in East Boston / Revere -- I suspect that at a minimum there will be the high-stakes slots- reno of Suffolk Downs
Commuting Boston Student
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,168
- Reaction score
- 1
You can call me anything you'd like, except for late to dinner!
Blue Line to Lynn would be a great start and I'd be happy to see that much get put into motion. I suppose it's too much to ask for that starting work on that would spur on additional work on, say, fixing the problems with the Green Line. Oh well...
JohnAKeith
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,320
- Reaction score
- 63
The idea that there will be any substantial revenue and that said revenue will actually go toward new projects is impractical. The casino money will be spent five times over before there's anything left of it.
I think I'll call you naive, instead.
I think I'll call you naive, instead.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
John -- I don't think that we are talking using revenue for the T expansion -- the concept is that the developer would contribute to the T
The Casino developer would probably contribute to the Blue Line to the order of the contribution being made to building the new station at Assembly Sq. or MGM's proposal to build a new Mass Pike Interchange in Brimfield for their proposed MGM Grand Casino
Beton Brut
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,382
- Reaction score
- 335
Commuting Boston Student
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,168
- Reaction score
- 1
Probably.
And I don't think any of the casino's revenue would go towards new projects, no.
I'm suggesting that the MBTA grab money out of them as part of the initial costs of construction etc. Once they're all set up and open for business, we're getting nothing out of them ever again - the time to milk them for project money is when they're already spending money here there and everywhere on land, buildings, furnishings, workers...
I'm not that kind of Student.
Digital_Islandboy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 60
Conduct an open poll with as many persons as possible. Ask people where they live and where they work. Ask if there's other locations people goto. With that information I'd redesign every bus route in the entire system around where the most people are trying to get from/to. Every 20 years the process can be done again. One thing I learned at the T in the Plans and Schedules dept. is every area you provide T service, will likely face the prospect of Gentrification. once that takes hold, and affluence builds, more people will begin to drive cars in that area causing rider-ship to drop in the long term. So certain bus routes in existence now might be irrelevant having been created decades ago.
Digital_Islandboy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 60
Service is going to get worse. The people who actually gave a "hoot" somewhat working at the T are tired of the rules like no cell phones at work, or getting bounced out for a simple fender bender and the loss of perks. Now, instead the MBTA is begging to hire some of the dregs of society who can't get jobs elsewhere but are enticed by the pay. Some of these persons see nothing wrong with turning up to work 15 mins. late and therefore showing up at the bus stop 15 mins. late... The more the MBTA cuts back on perks, mark my words the worse service will get. I will say there are some very bright and intelligent people in the MBTA that could be private sector personnel. Those that have the know-how are leaving. Those that can't do any better are staying. The more perks drop, the more I am noticing the quality of worker is beginning to plummet.
Digital_Islandboy
Active Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2010
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 60
You'd be surprise by the number of complaints when there's no CSA in a station and patrons have to fend for themselves. Esp. stations like Kendal or Central where there's two separate entrances.
Some people are careless and tap their card(with monthly pass) two times and get blocked due to passback-restriction meaning they have to wait a full 20-30 mins before tapping again to get in.
One customer I spoke to on the phone was flipping out because he decided answer his mobile, couldn't hear, so he left the station, and then couldn't get back in because he was trying to use the same monthly pass at the same station within the 20 mins. There was nothing I cold do. So sometimes an automated only doesn't remove all probs.