What would you do to get the T out of its financial mess?

The system should be a tax-supported utility, like the Fire Department or Police.

That's tricky. I think long term if Mass. is *ever* to have a good system, Western Mass. and Eastern Mass. will have to divorce one another. Governor's can't serve the needs of both regions. Personally. I believe W. Massachusetts should join Vermont because they have more in common with them than Eastern Massachusetts. The big problem the MBTA has is it needs more sales tax. But Western Massachusetts people (Esp. under Cellucci, Swift and Romney) lobbied hard to stop anymore sales tax from going into the MBTA because they hated the idea of having the sales tax go up, and they gain no benefits because there's no MBTA subway out there.
Similarly, they don't want tolls to pay for the big dig because the big dig benefits Eastern Massachusetts more.

The aforementioned governors came up with the concept of having the MBTA produce fare-raises on those that use the system instead of spreading the costs around the entire state via sales tax. Since the state can't openly back the MBTA without upsetting westerners I don't think much can change with it unless it narrows down on where people are wanting to get to and try to target how to serve the most people using the least amount of bus routes and such.
These two regions need to just split and go their separate ways. The remaining Governor of Eastern Mass. can then better focus on the transportation needs from Worcester eastward. And Western Mass. if they want to can decide on their own transport needs with their tax dollars, or decide they don't want public transport if that's their cup of tea too.
 
I think the MBTA is a prime example of how a Union can weigh a business, or entity down.

What percentage of MBTA employees belong to a union?

Until we see a major shift on Beacon Hill, I think the MBTA will stay the way it is, its main purpose is to employ people.

All MBTA people are in a union unless they are contract. The largest two are 589 or 453.

http://www.carmensunion589.org/
http://www.opeiu453.org/

Those aren't the only two though. Like I recall a lot of Mitt Romney's people were like the Executive Union.
 
I'm new to this discussion (and judging by the date stamps on the posts a page back, very late to the discussion), but here's what I'd do.

I'd knock down all of the toll booths on the Pike, and replace them with Open road tolling stations. Cash will no longer be accepted anywhere on the Pike - if you don't have a transponder already, don't worry! Automatic number plate recognition can also be used to mail you the bill for your toll, a system already in use in Florida (where it's known as TOLL-BY-PLATE. Yes, with the caps.) You will, of course, be charged additionally for the service and as an incentive to pick up a transponder.

After a few months to show that yes, this system works a whole hell of a lot better than the tool booths we've got now (seriously. The most annoying thing about fast lane is slowing down to 15 mph to go through it, right? Not so here!) and doesn't even require us to staff toll booths, I'd have Open Road Tolling stations added to every entrance and exit to the Big Dig tunnels of 93. You would pay once to get on, and once more to get off.

I'd also hike individual ride fares, but leave the monthly passes alone as an incentive to buy. I'd implement the technology that we know the MBTA has already to let them load 1-day daily passes onto a CharlieCard at any ticket vending machine in any given station, just like the monthly passes can be and are. (The 7-day weekly pass would either be discontinued, or become impossible to buy on either a CharlieTicket or CharlieCard except through pass offices, as the trade-off for it being much cheaper than seven 1-day passes.) As long as we're talking about the CharlieCard, make it possible to load commuter rail monthly passes onto the CharlieCard as well.

Bus services will be slashed (including and especially the Silver Line. It comes back as a light rail or it doesn't come back at all), but commuter rail and subway services will be increased in exchange. Run new commuter rail lines out to the folks in Western Mass., and charge everything west of Worcester as a Zone 9 (and beyond) stop. (That last part is probably just my annoyance as a southern Rhode Island resident with the fact that the only Zone 9 station in existence is T.F. Green, and the commuter rail zone fare map posted at Back Bay seems to hint that Wickford Junction will become the first and only Zone 10 stop.) Maybe run new subway lines or subway branches to replace some of the slashed bus service as well.

Yes, it's dramatic and expensive, but I believe that you need to spend money to make money. Ultimately, the huge initial cost of doing these things will be quickly offset by increased ridership and new revenue from tolling the Big Dig.

I love it! Great contribution!
 
Imagine if the 14.6 billion dollars went towards the MBTA instead of the central artery...

The MBTA was some of that. For example the silver Line bus tunnel, South Station, N. Station, Haymarket etc.
Bare in mind, the cement exterior walls of the central artery road extend all the way down to bedrock. So literally when Massachusetts is ready, it can excavate the current area of dirt in between the two outer walls and be left with a void with pre-cemented walls still down to bedrock. If the Commonwealth wants to build a people mover between N. and S. Station that option is there.
 
How important is customer service to people? Not being difficult, just asking. If the T ran on schedule, if it ran later into the night, if it expanded, we really wouldn't care what the employees did (or got paid), right?
 
How about market/garage rate or demand-driven street parking rates in the downtown core, revenues to go to the MBTA. Also, an excise tax on businesses offering parking spaces free or below the new street rates. This ends up being a lot like a congestion charge without all the logistical complexity.
 
That's tricky. I think long term if Mass. is *ever* to have a good system, Western Mass. and Eastern Mass. will have to divorce one another. Governor's can't serve the needs of both regions. Personally. I believe W. Massachusetts should join Vermont because they have more in common with them than Eastern Massachusetts. ....

Digit -- you are almost on the target

The real long term solution is to consider Boston to be a City-State in the mold of Singapore

There is the city proper surrounded by its core "trading area" -- this is approximately I-495
Then there are the extensions mostly along the major Interstates:
SE -- R-3 to Plymouth and the Cape
South I-95 to Providence
West I-90 to Worcester
NE -- I-95 to Portland
N -- I-93 to Concord
NW -- Rt-3 to Nashua, Rt-2 to Leominster

I would create a Metro County out of all of the cities and towns inside of or crossed by I-495 and donate to the Metro:
the T,
Logan
BCEC and the Hynes
Boston Common Parking Garage
MWRA
former MDC parks
jails
courts, etc.

the County gets to levy its own sales tax, has a legislature (nominated by each city and town) and an executive committee (elected at large) with an elected "President"

Then we let the people in the "metro County" decide how much they want to spend and on what
Beyond the core the metro county can make cooperative agreements with Worcester, Providence, Manchester, Portland, etc for inter-city rail service
 
Is it me, or does it seem like some T projects seem to take forever? The elevator at Park Street seems to be moving along very slow.

Contracts at the MBTA are done in pieces. I don't know the specifics on this project because I haven't spoken to anybody in contracts in years now, but sometimes you might have one company do clean up of the area. Then another will do the removal of the old elevator, another might install the new, and then another might come afterwords and do the tiling job around the new area.
Each contract requires the former to be signed off satisfactorily before the next will be begun. Part is holding people accountable, some is so that everything is done be bids, and some so that all contracts don't goto any one company all the time.
 
Digit -- you are almost on the target

The real long term solution is to consider Boston to be a City-State in the mold of Singapore

There is the city proper surrounded by its core "trading area" -- this is approximately I-495
Then there are the extensions mostly along the major Interstates:
SE -- R-3 to Plymouth and the Cape
South I-95 to Providence
West I-90 to Worcester
NE -- I-95 to Portland
N -- I-93 to Concord
NW -- Rt-3 to Nashua, Rt-2 to Leominster

I would create a Metro County out of all of the cities and towns inside of or crossed by I-495 and donate to the Metro:
the T,
Logan
BCEC and the Hynes
Boston Common Parking Garage
MWRA
former MDC parks
jails
courts, etc.

the County gets to levy its own sales tax, has a legislature (nominated by each city and town) and an executive committee (elected at large) with an elected "President"

Then we let the people in the "metro County" decide how much they want to spend and on what
Beyond the core the metro county can make cooperative agreements with Worcester, Providence, Manchester, Portland, etc for inter-city rail service

That's major. A metro county? I could just envision the Registrars of Deeds in all the fore-mentioned counties wanting to go on strike... j/k

This may require a huge change in the charter of the MBTA. Some municipalities are already members of the MBTA's advisory board so I don't know how this would impact on their (quasi- level of staked ownership to it.)

See map: http://www.mbtaadvisoryboard.org/area/

The states partial answer to the demands of Western Mass. was to create the Regional Transit Authorities (RTAs). So that for example Western Mass's portion of Sales Tax would fund their RTA instead of the MBTA. But that method still doesn't fix the problem with them not wanting big spending by the State House going directly to the Eastern Mass. region. Your solution might hold some promise if fleshed out more. It seems like it could work but Western Mass. people just don't want to be saddled with any debt (as part of this state) for something exclusive to Eastern Mass. They made that absolutely clear to the past Governors and it appears to me, maybe this governor because I now see the current Governor has a Western Mass. office too.
 
Contracts at the MBTA are done in pieces. I don't know the specifics on this project because I haven't spoken to anybody in contracts in years now, but sometimes you might have one company do clean up of the area. Then another will do the removal of the old elevator, another might install the new, and then another might come afterwords and do the tiling job around the new area.
Each contract requires the former to be signed off satisfactorily before the next will be begun. Part is holding people accountable, some is so that everything is done be bids, and some so that all contracts don't goto any one company all the time.

DigiT-- That is just KRAP!! -- in the private sector -- the same project would be done in 1/4 of the time with a far superior outcome -- because Time = Money and the people involved have a financial stake in the outcome.

Public sector construction tends to suffer from the generic problems of waste and inefficiency -- unless there are tight controls on the project, or substantial financial benefits to the contractor to finish early and under budget. It's hard to name a major public sector project which has been delivered on-time and budget -- let alone under budget and early. It's much more common to see the Big Dig effect -- the larger the project the greater the propensity for waste, inefficiency, faulty materials and shoddy workmanship.
 
I completely agree with this! I go to Northeastern and needed to walk through the Ruggles "T" station everyday... not even to use the T necessarily, but just to get from the NU campus to the International Village residence hall on the other side. Easily at least 5,000 people walk through that station during the week, and it's so freaking big! I always wonder how much more sense it would make to add more shops/restaurants along the main walkway above the bus pick slips. You could put a bar there, maybe a burger king/KFC, even a CVS pharmacy would do great there. It's something the MBTA should think about. I certainly have...

I think it may not be long before NEU tries to buy the air rights between main campus that stretch down to the Mass. Ave station. They would just have to plan for proper ventilation with the diesel powered commuter rail trains. using those tracks.
 
That's major. A metro county? I could just envision the Registrars of Deeds in all the fore-mentioned counties wanting to go on strike... j/k

This may require a huge change in the charter of the MBTA. Some municipalities are already members of the MBTA's advisory board so I don't know how this would impact on their (quasi- level of staked ownership to it.)

See map: http://www.mbtaadvisoryboard.org/area/

The states partial answer to the demands of Western Mass. was to create the Regional Transit Authorities (RTAs). So that for example Western Mass's portion of Sales Tax would fund their RTA instead of the MBTA. But that method still doesn't fix the problem with them not wanting big spending by the State House going directly to the Eastern Mass. region. Your solution might hold some promise if fleshed out more. It seems like it could work but Western Mass. people just don't want to be saddled with any debt (as part of this state) for something exclusive to Eastern Mass. They made that absolutely clear to the past Governors and it appears to me, maybe this governor because I now see the current Governor has a Western Mass. office too.

Mass Population [2010] 6547629

Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH Combined Statistical Area [2005] 7,427,336
Composed of the following Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas:
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metropolitan Statistical Area 4,411,835
Concord, NH Micropolitan Statistical Area
Laconia, NH Micropolitan Statistical Area
Manchester-Nashua, NH Metropolitan Statistical Area
Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA Metropolitan Statistical Area
Worcester, MA Metropolitan Statistical Area

So from the above we can see a strong case being made for the City-State Model as the economic influence zone [aka Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH Combined Statistical Area] includes more people than live in Massachusetts

Greaterboston2.png


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MOdUBVz2VX2AVXgRg&sig2=9Uwl76Eix8qyrD-kvg6czQ
 
Mass Population [2010] 6547629

Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH Combined Statistical Area [2005] 7,427,336
Composed of the following Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas:
Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH Metropolitan Statistical Area 4,411,835
Concord, NH Micropolitan Statistical Area
Laconia, NH Micropolitan Statistical Area
Manchester-Nashua, NH Metropolitan Statistical Area
Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA Metropolitan Statistical Area
Worcester, MA Metropolitan Statistical Area

So from the above we can see a strong case being made for the City-State Model as the economic influence zone [aka Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH Combined Statistical Area] includes more people than live in Massachusetts

Greaterboston2.png


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MOdUBVz2VX2AVXgRg&sig2=9Uwl76Eix8qyrD-kvg6czQ

Something to keep in mind, the MBTA charter (nor the Massachusetts Constitution) doesn't allow state agencies to have the mandate to serve, or to spend taxpayer dollars in another state. This is one of the reasons why MBCR is run as a completely stand alone co. (due to partly to the Rhode Island aspect). It has a separate management team and is closer to a structure like a private sector company.

So if you include Rhode Island (and New Hampshire) you're talking more of an MBCR company arrangement to those areas that again can't be supported by taxpayer dollars. Ideally with the On Time Service Guarantee shut down maybe Amtrak will bid for the Commuter Rail contract again.
 
Something to keep in mind, the MBTA charter (nor the Massachusetts Constitution) doesn't allow state agencies to have the mandate to serve, or to spend taxpayer dollars in another state. This is one of the reasons why MBCR is run as a completely stand alone co. (due to partly to the Rhode Island aspect). It has a separate management team and is closer to a structure like a private sector company.

So if you include Rhode Island (and New Hampshire) you're talking more of an MBCR company arrangement to those areas that again can't be supported by taxpayer dollars. Ideally with the On Time Service Guarantee shut down maybe Amtrak will bid for the Commuter Rail contract again.

Has nothing to do with why the T contracts out its service. They can run anywhere their hearts desire if they are fully 100% subsidized by an out-of-district party for every out-of-district running mile. This practice pre-dates the agency's very own charter and was grandfathered into the rules when the district was set up. Not only for things like Rhode Island service and New Hampshire (1964-66 and 1980-81) across state lines, but also for large chunks of the in-state commuter rail and bus lines that have been in, out, and back in again of the changing district shape over the last 48 years. Montchusett Area Regional Transit was the underwriter for Fitchburg Line service when it was restored past South Acton to Fitchburg in 1980, as was Merrimack Valley RTA when Haverhill Line service resumed past Wilmington to Andover, Lawrence, and Haverhill in 1979. Strictly as a paid mercenary deal until district agreements were cut years later. MART, not MBTA, still runs the station parking in Leominster and Fitchburg to this day so there are still examples of this in effect. Many too on the outer reaches of the bus system. Not every thing stamped Purple or Yellow Line is or always was a true "MBTA" service as defined by the district charter. There's an ever-morphing set of subsidy deals crisscrossing district lines...expanding and contracting...and it's always been that way.

RIDOT's current subsidy agreement is still a strict mercenary deal, and includes a paper ownership stake in the commuter rail fleet so their equipment needs are reimbursed into the general pool. Not only does that allow them to push as implausibly far out of T territory as Wickford Jct., but when they open their Providence-Westerly commuter rail service the T (if Amtrak doesn't put in a more favorable bid) could be the contracted operator for that service that doesn't even touch the state of Massachusetts. It's very similar to how Metro North runs in Connecticut. The MTA's got an even more restrictive charter than the MBTA on how many counties it can legally serve (they can't even cut in-state subsidy deals to stretch their borders), but Metro North has more total route miles and ridership in Connecticut than New York. And, oddly, more expansion potential in CT because CDOT can just pay them to go to Litchfield or Hartford Counties while the MTA member counties would almost have to literally vote themselves out and back into existence to be able to extend a Hudson Line train to the Amtrak stops past Poughkeepsie. They may go to Massachusetts before they go elsewhere in their own state if CDOT taps them to be the mercenary operator for New Haven-Hartford-Springfield commuter rail a la the T's chances with the Providence-Westerly contract.

As charters go, the one they've we've got covers the needs. It already has served at varying degrees of greatest and least extent everywhere north to Concord and northwest to Gardner, south to Providence, west to Worcester, and coastal from Cape Ann to South Shore. They don't have to change what the agency existentially is to have the Superstate of Massrhodehampshira...bounded roughly by I-195/US6, I-495, MA 146, I-190, and NH 101...coordinated by a single-source transit operator. It's just more of the same interstate and micro-regional subsidy deals. The rest is all finding sane administration and leadership to find the right proportions and enact it. Say what you will about those challenges, but they are neither guaranteed nor prohibited in any way by the charter. That's more than you can say if you're an NYC exurbanite living just beyond the now-and-forever brick wall of the MTA district.
 
Has nothing to do with why the T contracts out its service. They can run anywhere their hearts desire if they are fully 100% subsidized by an out-of-district party for every out-of-district running mile. This practice pre-dates the agency's very own charter and was grandfathered into the rules when the district was set up. Not only for things like Rhode Island service and New Hampshire (1964-66 and 1980-81) across state lines, but also for large chunks of the in-state commuter rail and bus lines that have been in, out, and back in again of the changing district shape over the last 48 years. Montchusett Area Regional Transit was the underwriter for Fitchburg Line service when it was restored past South Acton to Fitchburg in 1980, as was Merrimack Valley RTA when Haverhill Line service resumed past Wilmington to Andover, Lawrence, and Haverhill in 1979. Strictly as a paid mercenary deal until district agreements were cut years later. MART, not MBTA, still runs the station parking in Leominster and Fitchburg to this day so there are still examples of this in effect. Many too on the outer reaches of the bus system. Not every thing stamped Purple or Yellow Line is or always was a true "MBTA" service as defined by the district charter. There's an ever-morphing set of subsidy deals crisscrossing district lines...expanding and contracting...and it's always been that way.

RIDOT's current subsidy agreement is still a strict mercenary deal, and includes a paper ownership stake in the commuter rail fleet so their equipment needs are reimbursed into the general pool. Not only does that allow them to push as implausibly far out of T territory as Wickford Jct., but when they open their Providence-Westerly commuter rail service the T (if Amtrak doesn't put in a more favorable bid) could be the contracted operator for that service that doesn't even touch the state of Massachusetts. It's very similar to how Metro North runs in Connecticut. The MTA's got an even more restrictive charter than the MBTA on how many counties it can legally serve (they can't even cut in-state subsidy deals to stretch their borders), but Metro North has more total route miles and ridership in Connecticut than New York. And, oddly, more expansion potential in CT because CDOT can just pay them to go to Litchfield or Hartford Counties while the MTA member counties would almost have to literally vote themselves out and back into existence to be able to extend a Hudson Line train to the Amtrak stops past Poughkeepsie. They may go to Massachusetts before they go elsewhere in their own state if CDOT taps them to be the mercenary operator for New Haven-Hartford-Springfield commuter rail a la the T's chances with the Providence-Westerly contract.

As charters go, the one they've we've got covers the needs. It already has served at varying degrees of greatest and least extent everywhere north to Concord and northwest to Gardner, south to Providence, west to Worcester, and coastal from Cape Ann to South Shore. They don't have to change what the agency existentially is to have the Superstate of Massrhodehampshira...bounded roughly by I-195/US6, I-495, MA 146, I-190, and NH 101...coordinated by a single-source transit operator. It's just more of the same interstate and micro-regional subsidy deals. The rest is all finding sane administration and leadership to find the right proportions and enact it. Say what you will about those challenges, but they are neither guaranteed nor prohibited in any way by the charter. That's more than you can say if you're an NYC exurbanite living just beyond the now-and-forever brick wall of the MTA district.

Actually they do. Here's a quick Googled result.
--
MBTA considers the future of commuter rail service
Options include long-term pact
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ail-service/0PYjB4oKlvxRvXijm0CDXO/story.html

MBCR also has its own management team:
http://www.mbcr.net/Our_management_Team.html

When persons filed complaints or claims dealing with MBCR and they reached me, all I do was transfer them to that company because their employees are under MBCR's payroll so that's an MBCR issue... Also train delays and all that they forward that information to the MBTA but they handle all that themselves too.

Some of the commuter rail track routes are owned and controlled by other companies too (not the state). The Worcester Line was purchased by the state a few years ago. The tracks in East Cambridge were also purchased by the state. Amtrak was uncomfortable with the MBTA's on Time Service Guarantee. Meaning if the service was more than 30 mins. late the MBTA (and in this case Amtrak) would have been required to not only reimburse everyone's fare but then to also to give a next complimentary fare. It bled money from the system when it was capital that the T needs to improve the situation. It wasn't sustainable and eventually the MBTA had to drop that programme. The MBTA can is empowered with being able to run anywhere in the Commonwealth. Outside the Commonwealth will be the problem. At least that was the case at one time.
 
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Actually they do. Here's a quick Googled result.
--
MBTA considers the future of commuter rail service
Options include long-term pact
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ail-service/0PYjB4oKlvxRvXijm0CDXO/story.html

MBCR also has its own management team:
http://www.mbcr.net/Our_management_Team.html

When persons filed complaints or claims dealing with MBCR and they reached me, all I do was transfer them to that company because their employees are under MBCR's payroll so that's an MBCR issue... Also train delays and all that they forward that information to the MBTA but they handle all that themselves too.

Some of the commuter rail track routes are owned and controlled by other companies too (not the state). The Worcester Line was purchased by the state a few years ago. The tracks in East Cambridge were also purchased by the state. Amtrak was uncomfortable with the MBTA's on Time Service Guarantee. Meaning if the service was more than 30 mins. late the MBTA (and in this case Amtrak) would have been required to not only reimburse everyone's fare but then to also to give a next complimentary fare. It bled money from the system when it was capital that the T needs to improve the situation. It wasn't sustainable and eventually the MBTA had to drop that programme. The MBTA can is empowered with being able to run anywhere in the Commonwealth. Outside the Commonwealth will be the problem. At least that was the case at one time.

You've totally lost me here. MBCR has zero, zilch to do with the MBTA's charter or where they're allowed to run. They are simply an operating subcontractor providing commuter rail operations management. Every service agreement between a district town, out-of-district RTA, or other state is between those parties and the T. From 1964 on when the commuter rail started being subsidized, the T was the only agency the municipalities ever interfaced with. Even with the private RR's still owning and operating the lines under subsidy for the first 10 years, even with MBCR now the third operator since the full public ownership era began in 1976, even with them having the future option to go all in-house. It's Purple Line all the same as far as the public is concerned. The only time MBCR the company ever interfaces directly with the public is the aforementioned complaint line. Even the RR employees themselves are insulated from their "employer" MBCR by having union contracts seamlessly transferable from one company to the next, or in-house if it ever goes that way. Except for who their managers are, MBCR is just the name at the top of the pay stub. Just as Amtrak was the name at the top of the stub 9 years ago for all those workers doing the same jobs with the same T-owned equipment.


And I don't know what the On-Time Service guarantee has to do here either. That's strictly a clause specific to this subcontractor agreement to compel the operator to stick to a realistic schedule. If it can't, then it's on the operator to either modify its schedules to something it can make, which is where MBCR has been falling apart on the job. Or the operator has to take the agency to task to maintain the equipment that's failing the schedules...which is where both MBCR and the T are falling apart, and where the T-Amtrak working relationship fell apart at the end of the last contract. That's an administrative efficiency hurdle if they're getting tripped up on it, not a structural or "constitutional" hurdle. They can make their operator problems go away whenever they're motivated to hold MBCR to the fire, replace MBCR with somebody better, or do away with subcontracting altogether. Or...by making the On-Time Service guarantee itself go away in the next contract :rolleyes:


Who owns and dispatches what track doesn't have anything to do with who operates where. Each stretch of track and who runs on it is controlled by individual deals. Such as:
-- The T owns the title deed on the NEC to the state line, but Amtrak has controlled all dispatching and all track work on it since its inception 40 years ago. They can't leave South Station anywhere except for Fairmount and the Old Colony Lines without asking the Amtrak dispatcher for permission. They also can't make a single modification to anything on the Providence Line except the stations without Amtrak's permission. But we can thank the "foreign" control for pushing through the electrification, 150 MPH speeds, and slew of other improvements the T would've never been able to spearhead. We'll see the fruits of that once these new locomotives and coaches on-order get to haul the first 90 MPH Providence Line trains.
-- They CAN, however, legally operate the Purple Line as far south as New London, CT without negotiating any new rights deals with Amtrak on Amtrak-owned track in RI and CT. Thanks to a short-lived super-extended Boston-New London commuter train the New Haven RR ran 45 years ago which had perpetual rights conferred to the T when it bought the Providence Line. Hence, Purple Line trains to Wickford Jct. now and possibly Providence-Westerly entirely outside of MA borders later with no eyebrows raised. If RIDOT's paying for 100% of the out-of-district running, they're happy as clams to do it.
-- The T has owned the Worcester Line out to Framingham since the late-60's, but it took buying out the whole CSX works in Eastern MA to get their schedule slots on it...starting later this year when it's finally official. All the years in the 70's and 80's when service was cut back to just Framingham, and they still couldn't slot their own trains on their own track because Penn Central/Conrail had ironclad traffic priority to Beacon Park. They got the raw end of this one as much as they got a sweet deal with Amtrak on the NEC.
-- They still run on CSX-owned track to get to Forge Park from Franklin, but that deal gave the T 100% control of dispatching. And perpetual passenger rights to Milford without need for prior CSX permission.
-- They cut deals with Pan Am last year for perpetual passenger and dispatching rights on Pan Am-owned freight track for the Fitchburg-Wachusett and Haverhill-Plaistow extensions, plus future considerations Lowell-Concord and Worcester-Ayer. And, yes, this means the T has cleverly cornered the market on who can operate NH's own in-state service. If NHDOT wanted to go it alone they'd have to cut their own separate rights agreement with Pan Am, but as long as it's in Purple Line livery they can just reimburse the T to ping a train back and forth between Concord and Nashua to their heart's content.
-- By same token, every time somebody in the Patrick Admin. intermittently blurts out something in an election year about future commuter rail to Springfield...rest assured they are either lying or don't know what the hell they're talking about. Nowhere in any fine print does the T have operating rights west of Worcester Union Station. Only Amtrak. They want it...they're gonna have to buy out the whole CSX Western MA works at a premium to get it. You'll sooner see a conga line of Regionals go to Springfield on quasi-commuter headways than you'll ever see a Purple Line train venture west of I-290.



The transit region at-large is what their wheeling and dealing makes it. And past dealing has already stretched it to pretty much these same "Superstate" boundaries. What they want to operate and how competently they want to operate it are admin and planning decisions. What they're allowed to operate is already structurally protected.
 
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DigiT-- That is just KRAP!! -- in the private sector -- the same project would be done in 1/4 of the time with a far superior outcome -- because Time = Money and the people involved have a financial stake in the outcome.

Public sector construction tends to suffer from the generic problems of waste and inefficiency -- unless there are tight controls on the project, or substantial financial benefits to the contractor to finish early and under budget. It's hard to name a major public sector project which has been delivered on-time and budget -- let alone under budget and early. It's much more common to see the Big Dig effect -- the larger the project the greater the propensity for waste, inefficiency, faulty materials and shoddy workmanship.

Put it this way. Many people will only- do what's in their job description. If you try to eliminate someone's job you get opposition. I got yelled at once for talking about changing my own light bulb in my office because 1) it wasn't in my job description and 2) Maintenance might take industrial action for me doing their job without being in their union. Yea! It's that insane on the inside. Rest assured I placed the service call to have my light changed and waited until it was done. I got an order from above so I didn't want to get pulled up for being insubordinate. Cow toe is the order of the day.

I wont even get into how many people it actually takes to change a light bulb! lol.

~Dig.
 
You've totally lost me here. MBCR has zero, zilch to do with the MBTA's charter or where they're allowed to run. They are simply an operating subcontractor providing commuter rail operations management. Every service agreement between a district town, out-of-district RTA, or other state is between those parties and the T. From 1964 on when the commuter rail started being subsidized, the T was the only agency the municipalities ever interfaced with. Even with the private RR's still owning and operating the lines under subsidy for the first 10 years, even with MBCR now the third operator since the full public ownership era began in 1976, even with them having the future option to go all in-house. It's Purple Line all the same as far as the public is concerned. The only time MBCR the company ever interfaces directly with the public is the aforementioned complaint line. Even the RR employees themselves are insulated from their "employer" MBCR by having union contracts seamlessly transferable from one company to the next, or in-house if it ever goes that way. Except for who their managers are, MBCR is just the name at the top of the pay stub. Just as Amtrak was the name at the top of the stub 9 years ago for all those workers doing the same jobs with the same T-owned equipment.


And I don't know what the On-Time Service guarantee has to do here either. That's strictly a clause specific to this subcontractor agreement to compel the operator to stick to a realistic schedule. If it can't, then it's on the operator to either modify its schedules to something it can make, which is where MBCR has been falling apart on the job. Or the operator has to take the agency to task to maintain the equipment that's failing the schedules...which is where both MBCR and the T are falling apart, and where the T-Amtrak working relationship fell apart at the end of the last contract. That's an administrative efficiency hurdle if they're getting tripped up on it, not a structural or "constitutional" hurdle. They can make their operator problems go away whenever they're motivated to hold MBCR to the fire, replace MBCR with somebody better, or do away with subcontracting altogether. Or...by making the On-Time Service guarantee itself go away in the next contract :rolleyes:


Who owns and dispatches what track doesn't have anything to do with who operates where. Each stretch of track and who runs on it is controlled by individual deals. Such as:
-- The T owns the title deed on the NEC to the state line, but Amtrak has controlled all dispatching and all track work on it since its inception 40 years ago. They can't leave South Station anywhere except for Fairmount and the Old Colony Lines without asking the Amtrak dispatcher for permission. They also can't make a single modification to anything on the Providence Line except the stations without Amtrak's permission. But we can thank the "foreign" control for pushing through the electrification, 150 MPH speeds, and slew of other improvements the T would've never been able to spearhead. We'll see the fruits of that once these new locomotives and coaches on-order get to haul the first 90 MPH Providence Line trains.
-- They CAN, however, legally operate the Purple Line as far south as New London, CT without negotiating any new rights deals with Amtrak on Amtrak-owned track in RI and CT. Thanks to a short-lived super-extended Boston-New London commuter train the New Haven RR ran 45 years ago which had perpetual rights conferred to the T when it bought the Providence Line. Hence, Purple Line trains to Wickford Jct. now and possibly Providence-Westerly entirely outside of MA borders later with no eyebrows raised. If RIDOT's paying for 100% of the out-of-district running, they're happy as clams to do it.
-- The T has owned the Worcester Line out to Framingham since the late-60's, but it took buying out the whole CSX works in Eastern MA to get their schedule slots on it...starting later this year when it's finally official. All the years in the 70's and 80's when service was cut back to just Framingham, and they still couldn't slot their own trains on their own track because Penn Central/Conrail had ironclad traffic priority to Beacon Park. They got the raw end of this one as much as they got a sweet deal with Amtrak on the NEC.
-- They still run on CSX-owned track to get to Forge Park from Franklin, but that deal gave the T 100% control of dispatching. And perpetual passenger rights to Milford without need for prior CSX permission.
-- They cut deals with Pan Am last year for perpetual passenger and dispatching rights on Pan Am-owned freight track for the Fitchburg-Wachusett and Haverhill-Plaistow extensions, plus future considerations Lowell-Concord and Worcester-Ayer. And, yes, this means the T has cleverly cornered the market on who can operate NH's own in-state service. If NHDOT wanted to go it alone they'd have to cut their own separate rights agreement with Pan Am, but as long as it's in Purple Line livery they can just reimburse the T to ping a train back and forth between Concord and Nashua to their heart's content.
-- By same token, every time somebody in the Patrick Admin. intermittently blurts out something in an election year about future commuter rail to Springfield...rest assured they are either lying or don't know what the hell they're talking about. Nowhere in any fine print does the T have operating rights west of Worcester Union Station. Only Amtrak. They want it...they're gonna have to buy out the whole CSX Western MA works at a premium to get it. You'll sooner see a conga line of Regionals go to Springfield on quasi-commuter headways than you'll ever see a Purple Line train venture west of I-290.

The transit region at-large is what their wheeling and dealing makes it. And past dealing has already stretched it to pretty much these same "Superstate" boundaries. What they want to operate and how competently they want to operate it are admin and planning decisions. What they're allowed to operate is already structurally protected.


I don't think my response took. In-state (yet out of district) are not overly an issue because the sales tax statewide funds the MBTA. It is when sales tax from Mass. is used to pay for services outside of Massachusetts itself. An out of state portion, not being supported by any other entity would be a problem.
As I was made to understand, (and I do need to verify this), but going by what was explained to me on the inside there's a demarcation or sorts between MBTA and MBCR Co. For example it was explained the Combo pass which used to be I think almost $70 dollars was dropped in price during the last fare increase to just $59? (reconstituted as the "Link" pass). Meanwhile, the Zone 8 monthly pass (the non-interlink Zone 8) for example jumped from I believe $198 to $250. What was explained to me was the sharp rise in the Commuter rail monthly passes were mainly to fund primarily into commuter rail division itself and its fare increase was more mirroring the services costs estimated for that unit. The LINK didn't cover commuter rail any longer and therefore it was allowed to drop in price.

The On-Time-Service was one idea of the previous GM that did nothing but bleed more cash from the MBTA and caused Amtrak to turn up its nose at any idea of even considering running the service again for the MBTA. It was fraught with abuse and needed to be done away with anyway.
You stated that could just replace MBCR, although in order to replace MBCR, you need serious bidders. No serious provider was bidding to manage commuter rail, so MBCR almost gets it by default. (That's also part of the problem.)

In terms of huge service schedules modification to mitigate delays, that has to be agreed to according to statelaw by the MBTA Advisory Board. [http://www.mbtaadvisoryboard.org/about-us/ Again, which is made up of those various cities and towns in Massachusetts. The Red ones (on the map) are the oldest rank-and-file and the lighter shades are the ones which came later.

If RIDOT pays, that is precisely my point. Massachusetts Tax dollars wouldn't be coming into play. What I meant, is your not likely to say see a #45x MBTA local bus or subway line serve a route that straddles the state's border.

The actual sale of CSX ROW I believe was only a few years ago. In exchange the State is having them move from the Allston rail yard (next to the Mass. Pike.) and shift that to Worcester. I believe the media reported that Harvard University has already purchased the land beneath that Allston rail yard, and in exchange for the sale the state of Mass. agrees to lower the grade of all tracks west of the Worcester rail yard all the way to the New York border (and/or raise bridges) along that stretch to allow CSX to run double-stacked cargo trains. But the point about the dispatchers is that on lines not owned by the state, those private entities can favor cargo moves as opposed to passenger moves if those routes are busy.
 
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I don't think my response took. In-state (yet out of district) are not overly an issue because the sales tax statewide funds the MBTA. It is when sales tax from Mass. is used to pay for services outside of Massachusetts itself. An out of state portion, not being supported by any other entity would be a problem.
As I was made to understand, (and I do need to verify this), but going by what was explained to me on the inside there's a demarcation or sorts between MBTA and MBCR Co. For example it was explained the Combo pass which used to be I think almost $70 dollars was dropped in price during the last fare increase to just $59? (reconstituted as the "Link" pass). Meanwhile, the Zone 8 monthly pass (the non-interlink Zone 8) for example jumped from I believe $198 to $250. What was explained to me was the sharp rise in the Commuter rail monthly passes were mainly to fund primarily into commuter rail division itself and its fare increase was more mirroring the services costs estimated for that unit. The LINK didn't cover commuter rail any longer and therefore it was allowed to drop in price.

The On-Time-Service was one idea of the previous GM that did nothing but bleed more cash from the MBTA and caused Amtrak to turn up its nose at any idea of even considering running the service again for the MBTA. It was fraught with abuse and needed to be done away with anyway.
You stated that could just replace MBCR, although in order to replace MBCR, you need serious bidders. No serious provider was bidding to manage commuter rail, so MBCR almost gets it by default. (That's also part of the problem.)

In terms of huge service schedules modification to mitigate delays, that has to be agreed to according to statelaw by the MBTA Advisory Board. [http://www.mbtaadvisoryboard.org/about-us/ Again, which is made up of those various cities and towns in Massachusetts. The Red ones (on the map) are the oldest rank-and-file and the lighter shades are the ones which came later.

If RIDOT pays, that is precisely my point. Massachusetts Tax dollars wouldn't be coming into play. What I meant, is your not likely to say see a #45x MBTA local bus or subway line serve a route that straddles the state's border.

The actual sale of CSX ROW I believe was only a few years ago. In exchange the State is having them move from the Allston rail yard (next to the Mass. Pike.) and shift that to Worcester. I believe the media reported that Harvard University has already purchased the land beneath that Allston rail yard, and in exchange for the sale the state of Mass. agrees to lower the grade of all tracks west of the Worcester rail yard all the way to the New York border (and/or raise bridges) along that stretch to allow CSX to run double-stacked cargo trains. But the point about the dispatchers is that on lines not owned by the state, those private entities can favor cargo moves as opposed to passenger moves if those routes are busy.


Dig -- Don't want to intrude into your private debate wth F-Line -- but there is a very complete pdf document related to rail for Massachussetts -- it includes:
track speed limits
track weight limits
height clearances
ownership -- fairly complex
users -- even more complex
proposed projects

etc., etc.

If you are not aware of it -- you can locate it by Googling or directly through the Mass DOT website
 
Dig -- Don't want to intrude into your private debate wth F-Line -- but there is a very complete pdf document related to rail for Massachussetts -- it includes:
track speed limits
track weight limits
height clearances
ownership -- fairly complex
users -- even more complex
proposed projects

etc., etc.

If you are not aware of it -- you can locate it by Googling or directly through the Mass DOT website

*grin* it' not a debate. We're just discussing. :) This isn't private either. I'm kinda curious now if I might have worked with F-Line. *inquisitive*
 

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