Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

+++++2

David,

Very much enjoyed reading that!

The sq ft will likely be coming down significantly.

The public benefit just got infinitely more complicated.

And they still face the shadow mafia.

Btw, At 1 Lincoln St.... If Menino had been doing better urban planning,

We'd could have had ended up with something much taller.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

All of this makes me think that the 775' was standard negotiating overshoot tactic...Millennium will end up building this at 710' after creating the appearance that they graciously conceded 65'. Always start by asking for more, so they say...

710 feet is not the end of the world - let's just get this thing built. If a small cut is what will get it done so be it.



LAX kicked up a storm about the Rams' new stadium being constructed and they're getting $29 million for some additional radar equipment. Could Massport be trying to get something from the developer here?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

710 feet is not the end of the world - let's just get this thing built. If a small cut is what will get it done so be it.



LAX kicked up a storm about the Rams' new stadium being constructed and they're getting $29 million for some additional radar equipment. Could Massport be trying to get something from the developer here?

Interesting observation. Some additional radar around Logan could ease some of the height restrictions in the Financial District! Wonder if the BPDA is in on the "play".
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Fair enough. However, how much of the pubic benefit is in the final 6 floors at the top of the tower? i suspect it's a large %. 710' will be big loss for the City.



btw, the comment period is extended until this Friday;

http://www.bostonplans.org/projects/development-projects/115-winthrop-square

Thank you for posting this. I am not sure if my email will be read, so I split it up into 2 parts (it was longer than the 6000 character max) and submitted it in 2 parts via this link. Also had the chance to fix 3 sloppy errors. Hopefully somebody meaningful reads and considers what I have to say.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Great letter. I commend you from taking the time to write and send such an intelligent note in what it probably a storm of nonsense that they get at that office.

It boggles my mind that NYC has 16 buildings under construction taller than the Hancock. I wonder if it is too much. I know some people in real estate and they say there is some slowdown in the condo market (a lot of the buildings going up in NYC are residential).

I like the pace and mixture of buildings Boston is putting up from labs in Cambridge, high rises behind North Station (who knew that would ever happen), to developing that strange wasteland down by the Boston Herald / old incinerator site.

I hope that this site gets something special.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Mayor Walsh in his State of the City remarks last night, called out "$100 million from the Winthrop Sq. project, will go to housing in [various neighborhoods] and to finally connect the Emerald Necklace."

[paraphrasing of course, but words to that effect]

FYI, here's Olmstead's original plan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Necklace#/media/File:Olmsted_historic_map_Boston.png

Wonder what "finally connect" practically means, and how much of the $100 million gets plowed into it. I can't see any of it going to actual land takings/eminent domain, even if that were necessary to honor Olmstead's "true wishes." But it looks like protected greenspace connecting paths are required from southern tip of JP Pond to northern edge of Arboretum, and again from eastern edge of Arboretum to western edge of Franklin Park? Basically dedicated set-asides on the Arborway corridor on both stretches, then, with appropriate plantings? Someone else must know better--and sorry for the minor derailment but I don't think this should go into any JP thread...
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

apologies if this has been discussed but will Millennium get a reduction in its $153 million owed to the city if they are forced to build smaller than proposed? In other words is Millennium entitled to a discount if the building permit is only issued for say a 50 story building?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Wonder what "finally connect" practically means, and how much of the $100 million gets plowed into it.

It could also mean a rebuild of Columbia Road between Franklin Park and JFK U/Mass, the never-built section of the Emerald Necklace. It's been on the city's wishlist for years and they keep attaching it to other initiatives like Boston 2024 and Boston Green Links, so maybe they've finally earmarked some funding for it from the Winthrop Square windfall.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

apologies if this has been discussed but will Millennium get a reduction in its $153 million owed to the city if they are forced to build smaller than proposed? In other words is Millennium entitled to a discount if the building permit is only issued for say a 50 story building?
part of their bid included providing funds to the City as condos sold. Less height probably means less SF, which means less revenue via condo sales.
A cynic (and the other teams that bid on the RFP) will say that Millennium knew they werent going to get the height and therefore new their bid was unrealistically inflated.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

part of their bid included providing funds to the City as condos sold. Less height probably means less SF, which means less revenue via condo sales.
A cynic (and the other teams that bid on the RFP) will say that Millennium knew they werent going to get the height and therefore new their bid was unrealistically inflated.

Another way to say this is that they designed their bid to share the risk with the city, so their loss is the city's loss. A brilliant strategy to produce a seemingly larger bid number.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^^unquestionably. MP is operating on an advanced level. At the last public meeting, they demonstrated that once again. They also had a section showing a progressive scale from feasibility to build, up to the maximum publc benefit.

The impressive outlay of cash was always based on an 'unlikely' outcome. The public benefit shrinks, then quickly vanishes just by cutting off a few floors.

Tacit, friendly extortion 'pays.' You got the city going toe to toe with Massport and the shadow police. Rare.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Mayor Walsh in his State of the City remarks last night, called out "$100 million from the Winthrop Sq. project, will go to housing in [various neighborhoods] and to finally connect the Emerald Necklace."

[paraphrasing of course, but words to that effect]

FYI, here's Olmstead's original plan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Necklace#/media/File:Olmsted_historic_map_Boston.png

Wonder what "finally connect" practically means, and how much of the $100 million gets plowed into it.

According to the transcript of the address on the WBUR website, the word was "complete" ("completing" actually), not "connect":

We renovated 61 parks and playgrounds. And I’m proposing to use $100 million from the sale of the Winthrop Square Garage downtown to strengthen our neighborhoods. That money will go to revitalizing public housing in East Boston and South Boston, major investments in Franklin Park and Boston Common, and finally completing the original plan for the Emerald Necklace.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

So yes, then he's talking about completing the Emerald Necklace to the Bay. That was the original plan before it got paired back to Franklin Park.

OK, glad we got the Mayor's exact language.

But, check out Olmstead's original again, I'm reposting:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Olmsted_historic_map_Boston.png


That seems to indicate it stopping completely at Franklin Park, with no corridor from the east end of Franklin Park down Columbia Road to Carson Beach in Southie. Is there an alternative Olmstead plan that shows this hypothetical Columbia Road corridor?

P.S. From the corner of Blue Hill Ave., at 150 foot elevation, Columbia Road plummets to Mass. Ave intersection, 20 foot elevation, in 1.7 miles. Seems like a perfect gradient for some dedicated bike lane for easy cruisin' in tandem with whatever this Emerald Necklace "completion" may look like.

Again, sorry for the modest derail, but, this was brought up explicitly by the Mayor in relation to Winthrop Sq. tower project.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

OK, glad we got the Mayor's exact language.

But, check out Olmstead's original again, I'm reposting:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Olmsted_historic_map_Boston.png


That seems to indicate it stopping completely at Franklin Park, with no corridor from the east end of Franklin Park down Columbia Road to Carson Beach in Southie. Is there an alternative Olmstead plan that shows this hypothetical Columbia Road corridor?

P.S. From the corner of Blue Hill Ave., at 150 foot elevation, Columbia Road plummets to Mass. Ave intersection, 20 foot elevation, in 1.7 miles. Seems like a perfect gradient for some dedicated bike lane for easy cruisin' in tandem with whatever this Emerald Necklace "completion" may look like.

Again, sorry for the modest derail, but, this was brought up explicitly by the Mayor in relation to Winthrop Sq. tower project.

That is not the original plan, despite however it is labeled. That is what was actually built. Olmsted wanted a complete necklace "from the Harbor to the Bay" to jewel the neck that is Boston.

columbiamap.png


Here's more info:
CONTEXT and HISTORY:
Frederick Law Olmsted intended Columbia Road to be a continuation of the Emerald Necklace -- the Boston City park network that connects parkland from the Back Bay Fens to Franklin Park. Under his original plan, Franklin Park would be connected to Marine Park and Pleasure Bay via Columbia Road, the Dorchesterway, and the Strandway (collectively the William J. Day Boulevard). The park system would thus have resembled a horseshoe of continuous greenway and parks.

The conditions of Columbia Road when the parks system was being established, however, precluded this vision from becoming a reality. When Columbia Road was formally designed in the late 1800s, there was already a relatively high density of buildings. The road had street rails that were used by a streetcar trolley connecting Uphams Corner and Franklin Park. There was a grass strip in the center and roads on either side, one for commercial traffic and the other for pleasure traffic. As a result, Columbia Road failed to serve the purposes of either the businesses or the pleasure travelers well, and there was not enough room for what Olmsted considered a proper parkway.

During a period of high racial tensions in the area in the 1960s, Columbia Road served as a barrier between two opposed ethnic groups -- the blacks and the Irish. According to one social history of the area, "The very presence of a black face in parts of Irish Dorchester was considered sufficient provocation for a chase and beating; the sanctity of the neighborhood and parish was of paramount importance" (Levine and Harmon, The Death of an American Jewish Community, 1994, p176).

Physical improvements to Columbia Road were made between 1992 and 1993. More recently, the Boston Department of Parks and Recreation began planting and maintaining trees, grass, and planters along the western-most section of Columbia Road. Despite the recent "greening" of parts of Columbia Road by the Boston Department of Parks and Recreation, the corridor is not a parkway along the lines of other sections of the Emerald Necklace in Jamaica Plain.

https://web.archive.org/web/2011052...an.harvard.edu/hotc/DisplayPlace.asp?id=11460

Was covered in the site & landscape architecture seminar my junior year.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Yes - the original was to go connect up to Southie via Columbia Rd. To be honest it will be kind of exciting if we ever actually do that and finally complete it. The one thing I could never figure out is that I have read that Dorchester park was originally intended to be part of the Emerald Necklace, but it really doesn't make sense in how.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

UGH. Will this curtail 1 Bromfield?!

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the wording of the changes.

The "shadow bank" of 1 acre during daytime hours, March 21 to October 21 applies to the Midtown Cultural District or to developments in PDAs.

Not sure if there is much shadow bank left after 115 Winthrop gets an exclusion.

You can try to parse what is included, excluded here:
http://archives.lib.state.ma.us/bitstream/handle/2452/32231/1990acts0362.txt
 

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