Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District


I think the city will, but it'll take a while and not for the usual reasons.

The need for commercial space is being filled in the Seaport right now by and large. Looking at the Seaport from up high, there's a lot more parking lots to be filled. For that reason, the demand to build high downtown and nearby neighborhoods won't be there until the Seaport is built out. Unless....

1) City could go the route of Atlanta 30 years ago and have its tallest building be a signature hotel in the core of the city. Downtown is out because of the FAA but you could put a large one by North Station. The demand for hotel space in Boston is certainly there, and if the city keeps growing economically demand will only get stronger. Or...

2) If the Christian Scientists make a mint on One Dalton, I can easily see them finding more space for another tower 50-60 feet higher. Could be a hotel as well and that's a prime location without the problem of NIMBY extortion or shadow concerns. For the same reason why One Dalton went up quickly (church already owns land, not subject to grandstanding politicians, etc) what's to stop them from putting up something similar nearby?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

If the city would ever consider redeveloping city hall.

Anyway there are still a bunch of the parcels on the edge of the city yet to be developed that will probably take up much of the demand before we start getting to difficult build sites like Kneeland or decks over the pike.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Office tower vs Luxury condo, apartments and Hotel tower... it's a bit Apples to Oranges.

Not really? The only real difference is the floor height. You can retain the T shape of the footprint, use a similar facade style of 101 Federal Street, and have higher floor heights for the office portion and shorter floor heights for the apartment and hotel floors.

At the top of the section facing Federal St, I would have had it set back into the main segment of the tower similar to how the second tower from the right does it in the below picture:

Financial-District-nyc-0808.jpg


And for the main section, I would set inward a section in the middle of each side by 3 feet or so to basically break up the tower into smaller components (similar to how the ESB does it). This would make the tower look slimmer and taller without actually being slim or tall and without sacrificing square footage. Put set backs on the top floors to create a "crown" to finish it off and voila, you get something that isn't an eyesore.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Agreed except put a significant space between them to break them up. It seems as if there's any architectural style that supports it, Modernism with Art Deco themes seems high on the list.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The current facade looks like it will be higher quality than 101 Federal Street. There are just too many clashing facades going on for 1 building to handle. It can get simpler without also lowering the quality of the cladding.

Just to point out, in NYC they are going to be voluntarily demolishing a tower even taller than this, because it's too small for JP Morgan and they want to go substantially higher. It's a good counter to the "Manhattanization" of Boston comments. Even our tallest building downtown would no longer suffice in NYC!

http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=4674&page=10
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Greetings coalition members!

2017 was certainly an eventful year. With your support, we were able to make great strides, including amending the shadow law, which will allow Boston to rise on a global scale.

We’re two months in and 2018 promises to be a positive year for growth in Boston. The design for the much anticipated Winthrop Square project has moved forward and the last public meeting before BPDA review is scheduled. We invite you to join us tonight!

Monday, March 5th from 6 - 8 p.m.
33 Arch St, 29th floor
Boston, MA 02110

This will be a great meeting to attend if you are interested in the more unique aspects of the project, as particulars will be discussed, including: Urban Design, Shadow, Wind, the Great Hall, Winthrop Square Park, Office Space, Transportation, Diversity and Affordable Housing.

Support letters are encouraged as well and can be sent to casey.a.hines@boston.gov no later than March 19th.

All are welcome, so bring your neighbors, friends and colleagues. Together we can let the elected officials know that the community wants to Let Boston Rise!
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Can anyone please request that they make it less ugly at the meeting tonight?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

That was worth the price of admission.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[2017 was certainly an eventful year. With your support, we were able to make great strides, including amending the shadow law, which will allow Boston to rise on a global scale.]

Odurandina:

1) Yes, please post an actual explanation to your recent post.

2) I'm not trying to be daft, but can you or anyone here clarify what actually happened with the amended shadow law along these lines: my hazy understanding is that the city put almost all of its 'shadow eggs' into one basket: 115 Winthrop. That made sense at the proposed 775 or even 750 ft tall plan. Virtually no new shadows allowed IF the city could get this single project approved. It was a compromise sacrifice, but it made sense.

But now that the project has been knocked down AFTER the shadow law was passed, what exactly have we gained?

Presumably the city would not have leveraged away so much of the shadow 'bank' if the actual building was going to be less than 700 feet, no?? (In other words: we struck a bargain based upon assuming a particular result; now that much of that result is 'moot', did it turn out to be a sucker's bargain for those who want smart height/density?)

Thanks to any and all who can help to clarify this situation.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The minute i get home!!

Q: have we shadow left over for 1 Bromfield St & Pi Alley Garage to still get very tall?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The minute i get home!!

Q: have we shadow left over for 1 Bromfield St & Pi Alley Garage to still get very tall?

So for you this is all about height, not the fact that it looks like a steaming pile of shit and does not resemble what MP teased the BPDA with to get the development rights?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[2017 was certainly an eventful year. With your support, we were able to make great strides, including amending the shadow law, which will allow Boston to rise on a global scale.]

Odurandina:

1) Yes, please post an actual explanation to your recent post.

2) I'm not trying to be daft, but can you or anyone here clarify what actually happened with the amended shadow law along these lines: my hazy understanding is that the city put almost all of its 'shadow eggs' into one basket: 115 Winthrop. That made sense at the proposed 775 or even 750 ft tall plan. Virtually no new shadows allowed IF the city could get this single project approved. It was a compromise sacrifice, but it made sense.

But now that the project has been knocked down AFTER the shadow law was passed, what exactly have we gained?

Presumably the city would not have leveraged away so much of the shadow 'bank' if the actual building was going to be less than 700 feet, no?? (In other words: we struck a bargain based upon assuming a particular result; now that much of that result is 'moot', did it turn out to be a sucker's bargain for those who want smart height/density?)

Thanks to any and all who can help to clarify this situation.

Here's the old law, in two sections:

The 1990 component::
http://archives.lib.state.ma.us/actsResolves/1990/1990acts0362.pdf


The 1992 component::
http://archives.lib.state.ma.us/actsResolves/1992/1992acts0384.pdf

Here's the new law:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/SessionLaws/Acts/2017/Chapter57

Print. Study. Deploy a durable red-ink pen to make all necessary excisions. Deploy a differently-colored pen to make all necessary insertions. Enjoy.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The minute i get home!!

Q: have we shadow left over for 1 Bromfield St & Pi Alley Garage to still get very tall?

ok, you're posting in other threads -- how about this "the minute i get home" stuff?

let's go with the details!

:)
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

so when do we get the final bait n switch on this one? 2 months? We think its bad now wait till its in final form lol. Caaaaaant wait. Menino is rolling over in his grave.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

"We’re two months in and 2018 promises to be a positive year for growth in Boston. The design for the much anticipated Winthrop Square project has moved forward and the last public meeting before BPDA review is scheduled. We invite you to join us tonight!

"This will be a great meeting to attend if you are interested in the more unique aspects of the project, as particulars will be discussed, including: Urban Design, Shadow, Wind, the Great Hall, Winthrop Square Park, Office Space, Transportation, Diversity and Affordable Housing."

Shadow; check
Wind; Boston is windy.
Great Hall; keeping an open mind.
Winthrop Square Park; check.
Office Space; ostensibly set in stone (i think).
Transportation; heart of Downtown Boston.
Diversity; yes.
Affordable Housing; Parcel 12; 348' of mostly affordable units
Parks outside of Winthrop Square; fingers crossed for noticeable improvements.

Urban design; i share many of your opinions; i don't like it.

i felt what they did in bidding for a fat tower was close to a 'bribe.' i respected your opinions that Millennium have earned Boston's trust. i respect they were the smartest team of 'professionals' in the room. i used this as good things to build on in my mind after initially giving MP a significant tirade and crap for 'winning' in the way that they did.

i said to Joe Larkin face to face in front of his distinguished design team (December of 2016) that i would be the biggest phony ever to offer congratulations, and not mention my concern the bid might be too generous, and my bluntness for mentioning such in the Globe....

"That thing is 'big,' but the cladding is good. i think it will be ok (translation; damn that thing's fat)...

"We know your commitment to see it through deserves everyone's respect, and i've come to support this effort, and MP." (grovel, grovel, grovel and then some.)


Tonight; got to a long and substantive discussion about how this thing MUST and CAN be fixed. It's extremely hard to try to explain the conversation in a way that's fair to Boston's most successful real estate developer Joe Larkin and Millennium. i need to be extremely careful about what i say.

These guys REALLY took the time to listen. (what's done is done), and they're tasked with making the ~$165M tax package work. i first, spoke with 'the guy' from Handel;

i began with my weak attempt at an apology for speaking bluntly... "i am here to support the development team, and BPDA... i'm being insolent to think i can have some idea that could improve the outcome, when you have a dozen of your best people working on it. i'm being rude."

i asked about how far along they are with it, and if there's flexibility to make significant changes to the residential portion of the tower.

Me; "The office tower is a fair response to the challenge (obviously). When you factor all that MP is tasked to do, your methodology (in using various cladding schemes to break it up) is supportable. i'm realistic; the office portion of the tower is fine really. The Great Hall in this '3D virtual,' is a nice surprise. There's been some skepticism -- but it looks really good.

obviously it was an extended back and forth. paraphrasing a bit;

"The building won't be as visible from the base toward the middle floors from the millions of viewing points throughout the City. The 'method' to break up those sections works for the observer/s close to the building.

"But, it clearly does not translate to the upper floors. There's no way to hide the width. The fatness from all parts of the City, East Boston and Cambridge is problematic even if your aren't adding another fat building to a cluster of fat buildings. In this way, the project departs from its 'iconic' mandate. There must be a way to fix it if keeping the 1.6M sq feet; It seems fairly clear; you must build two distinct towers starting about half way up...

Handel Guy; "Yes, it's possible. Hard to do for this odd parcel.... starting with (i believe he said) two cores.... if you have 800' or more, then maybe you can."

Me; i just think if you guys can find a way to make the impossible work.... asymmetrical, Hudson Yards--but a smaller scale... start crazy and reel it in.... bend the tallest/ wide part outward to create the space between the 2nd tower, giving the skyward massing it's proper balance and aesthetic. i think it's the solution.

Not long after, i was given the opportunity to repeat these points with Joe Larkin. There were about 8 other people standing about. He had a very surprising, definitive response.

i came away very pleased with what Joe said. Joe specifically asked me not to write down what he said. But just to leave it up to him to make any announcements henceforth. i will respect his wishes.


finally; is a creative solution to begin the foundation work before the tower has it's final design approval, possible? Up on '29' at 33 Arch w/ the demo pit all lit up was amazing! When will the digging begin?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

So, you're saying the design is not final?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Why don't they just build what they proposed? This is part of the reason they won the bid?
 

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