Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[Rover]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

for those convinced that i and others over here are "crazy" and going overboard in our reactions, figured i'd share that extremely negative reactions to this current proposal are not limited to AB.org.


This is pathetic, and it shames the clean and stoic towers around it.

Aaaand that flushing sound is the author's credibility! Exactly which buildings around it is it shaming?

 

[cadetcarl]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I can't believe I'm being this guy but a major contributor to 133 Federal's ugliness is its stubbiness. If it were taller at least its proportions would lend to its muscular tectonics. It'd look more like 225 Franklin (which I know people don't like but I think is handsome).

133 Fed is a half-tower.

 

[chrisbrat]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

133 federal is cool looking. i agree it would be neat if it was, like, 2x as tall.

225 franklin is sort of ho-hum IMHO. it was a lot more interesting with the giant sign on top. i wonder if i'd like it better if i had never seen it in that state and only knew it as it is now.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

3x increase the a/r by 200%.

 

[KentXie]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Interesting that people are ripping this tower when it is in fact much better than most of the downtown towers we have already.

That's because it's a low bar. We are going from plain ugly to mediocre at best.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

133 Federal is one of the better examples of Brutalism in the city.

 

[BosDevelop]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

That's because it's a low bar. We are going from plain ugly to mediocre at best.

It also has to do, in part, with Menino's original plan to make this an "iconic" tower. Even if it was never going to be a super tall like Menino wanted, many folks on here (myself included) have been hoping for something special at this site. Guess we all should have known better given the steep price to get the rights to develop here.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

133 Federal is one of the better examples of Brutalism in the city.

Except it isn't a Brutalist building. Rudolph is frequently identified among the Brutalists, but his Blue Cross building is better described as Structural Expressionism or proto-High Tech.

 

[DBM]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

113 Federal is one of the better examples of Brutalism in the city.

Actually, it's not Brutalist--it's merely a contemporary of Brutalist works.

Brutalist buildings:

70 Federal
10-24 School
City Hall
Le Corbusier's Carpenter Ctr. at Harvard

Their common denominator are the long slab poured concrete forms with essentially zero ornamentation or embellishment.

In contrast, 133 Federal St. is *positively giddy* with gaudy adornments--those embedded "Y" repeating patterns in the ribbing.

Most sources I'm reading call it simply Modernist in style. This testimony seems particularly erudite in couching the work in Modernist vernacular, pre-Brutalist:

http://www.modernpreservation.com/CUBE-Rudolph-Testimony.pdf

EDIT: while I was typing this, I see someone else corrected the Brutalist assertion as well...

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^ Nice link.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Here's some more info about Brutalist architecture. Apparently it originates from the French word for "raw" and was specifically referred to by Le Corbusier as raw concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Personally, I'd rather think that after a few years of this architecture, some high ranking or extremely famous person publicly called it brutal and the name stuck. Maybe 115 Winthrop Square can launch the Wretchedism movement, with the distinct goal of creating the most revolting landmark buildings possible in order to lead that city's way into the dystopian future. And here's cutting edge Boston, at the front of the pack!

 

[tobyjug]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Here's some more info about Brutalist architecture. Apparently it originates from the French word for "raw" and was specifically referred to by Le Corbusier as raw concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

Personally, I'd rather think that after a few years of this architecture, some high ranking or extremely famous person publicly called it brutal and the name stuck.

...and that French phrase is... beton brut.

 

[Lrfox]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

...and that French phrase is... beton brut.

Yes.

I know this is off topic, but I tend to think that the problem with Brutalist architecture isn't so much the architecture itself, but the scale in which it was applied at the time (i.e. State Services Center, City Hall, etc.). 70 Federal is one of my favorite buildings in the Financial District. BAC has a nice footprint and a good ground level. Even the Christian Science Plaza, while large, is contextual and aesthetically pleasing. The problem is that the rise of Brutalism coincided with the era of urban renewal and a focus on autocentric development. So you ended up with monsters like SSC and City Hall Plaza. Because of their size, these examples overshadow the smaller examples that fit into their surroundings.

Brutalist buildings in Boston, especially the government ones, also suffer from poor maintenance which doesn't help either.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Marty better step back and evaluate what is going on.
#1 Winthrop new proposal is garbage.
#2 South Station proposal is awful who knows what is going on there.
#3 Harbor Garage seems to be a permanent fixture on the Greenway blocking 100% of the waterfront thanks to the city & state.
#4 They invest billions of tax dollars to buildout the Innovation district without adequate transporation access.
#5 GE--Basically gave away prime real estate to a dying company.

3 important sites that should support trophy towers for Boston new skyline and ground access instead we are getting garbage.

I vote get RID OF THE BRA now. Its apparent they don't really have a clue.

 

[Coyote137]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

*BPDA

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

What billions was spent on the innovation district under Marty's term?

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

*BPDA

Whatever its called now.

What billions was spent on the innovation district under Marty's term?

True---Menino's friends made a lot of money including the Millenium Group. The problem is they forgot about basic logic.

Basic Building a city.
101--Strong foundation & infrastructure to help support the area you invest billions of tax dollars on with good transit flow for the overall public.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^Millennium group does not have any projects in the seaport at the moment.

And I know you're going to mention the Vertex tax breaks. The 12 million dollars. Yes it was a bit much, but you could argue that buildings like the vertex one have paved the way for the newer buildings that we have seen in recent years. And the city is getting a hell of alot more then 12 million a year in property taxes from all of the new buildings that have sprouted up.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^Millennium group does not have any projects in the seaport at the moment.

And I know you're going to mention the Vertex tax breaks. The 12 million dollars. Yes it was a bit much, but you could argue that buildings like the vertex one have paved the way for the newer buildings that we have seen in recent years. And the city is getting a hell of alot more then 12 million a year in property taxes from all of the new buildings that have sprouted up.

It paved the way for the Seaport? That is prime time land. WTF are you talking about.
3 units in Southie are going for 3 Million
3 Units in Somerville are going for 1.5Million
3 Units in Cambridge are going for 4-6 Million
Just curious is there still subsidize housing in Cambridge and how much are the taxpayers paying the landlords now? MARKET RENT

Why didn't Menino just give Vornado the tax break at the time to build in downtown? He made such a big deal about Vornado asking for the tax break and basically forced them to sell to the Millenium Group only to issue out the tax incentive to them.

Bad politics in this city is costing Boston in a couple ways.
#1 Income inequality is out of control now in and around the surroundings of Boston. Not healthy.
#2 Traffic is getting as bad as LA
#3 Seaport was developed maybe not intentionally but its only geared for the upperclass, tourists and super rich. All the public's money only enriched the developers of the area it did nothing for the overall public.

 

[BKNA]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It paved the way for the Seaport? That is prime time land. WTF are you talking about.
3 units in Southie are going for 3 Million
3 Units in Somerville are going for 1.5Million
3 Units in Cambridge are going for 4-6 Million

you realize that none of this was true at the time of the tax break right? and none if it has anything to do with the waterfront area.
whether tax incentives is a good idea or not can be debated all you want, but your argument cant be that it was a boom town when Vertex got its deal.

Not to mention Fan Pier, Pier 4, Wateside Place, and Seaport Square were all permitted in the early 2000s and 10 years later ZERO had happened in the area.

So yes, the Vertex deal did pave the way and got the ball rolling for the area. Maybe it would have happened anyway, but theres no way to know that. This development boom could have been happening in other areas and not the waterfront since nobody wanted to be 1st.

now, back on topic...