Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

KentXie said:
They could you know, kept the facade consistent or cohesive instead of a jarring mash of what looks like three separate buildings. That wouldn't require them to sacrifice revenue.

But you keep doing you, which is make up lame excuses for architects' failure to make an effort to come up with a decent design. That's what the city of Boston have been doing for years and it shows.
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How in hell is receiving $153M dollars for city services a "lame excuse for architects' failure"? Look chief, if 153 million bucks is a drop in the bucket to you then god bless ya. For mostly everybody else that has a real impact. For that kind of money they can reconstruct One Beacon St.

Most likely the relative cheapness of the design is related to having to pony up that sum, which was needed to get the legislature to change the law and overcome any and all nonsensical lawsuits and other regulatory hurdles like the Mass Historical Commission. The alternative would be a 300 ft groundscraper or a crumbling garage. The current design works well enough. The last time somebody told me to not sacrifice anything unless I got my way 100%, it was during the 2016 presidential election and look how that turned out!
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

KentXie said:
They could you know, kept the facade consistent or cohesive instead of a jarring mash of what looks like three separate buildings. That wouldn't require them to sacrifice revenue.

But you keep doing you, which is make up lame excuses for architects' failure to make an effort to come up with a decent design. That's what the city of Boston have been doing for years and it shows.
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It took me awhile to come to a mild understanding of Boston's latter day obsession with breaking up buildings into sections to fool our eyes into seeing cornices when there are more groups of floors rising above; all to protect us from our fears of tall buildings. Street walkers, eyes fixed on their smartphones will not look upward. Instead they will pass what their brain scarcely perceives is a group of dull buildings.... not noticing the hugest one has several facades clumped together.

As the years march on, people will look at our Downtown skyline, and say, "i guess nobody cared."


chrisbrat said:
Someone pointed out that the original design wasn't that great -- and I agree. It just wasn't this hideous.

Many "must-have" elements as outlined by the city have been ignored completely.

Any tower on this parcel was to have a public observation deck. Where's that?

This was repeatedly designated by the city as a spot where whatever gets built must be iconic. Iconic is the Oriental Pearl Tower, Empire State Building, Transamerica Pyramid, 30 St. Mary Axe. Can anyone here claim, with a straight face, that this thing is going to be "iconic"?

So, yeah: I was exaggerating for effect. But not all that much. I think the comparison to the PanAm/MetLife building is apt. Did that "ruin" NYC? No, but it sure fucked up that general area and -- as already stated -- to screw up a few blocks in Manhattan is proportionately way less of a crime than to do so in Boston, seeing as the Financial district is like 1/100th the size of Manhattan.

This will be a big deal, in a negative way, if no changes are made. And as just noted (reasonably), you could still reap the same profits with a more cohesive design.
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This ain't getting built. Expect a 50% stock market crash coming.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TheRifleman said:
This ain't getting built. Expect a 50% stock market crash coming.
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Have you actually shorted the market in order to cash in? If so who will play you in the sequel to The Big Short!
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TheRifleman said:
This ain't getting built. Expect a 50% stock market crash coming.
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I was also expecting you to show up to the last meeting, as you said you would, and look what happened there.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Rover said:
How in hell is receiving $153M dollars for city services a "lame excuse for architects' failure"? Look chief, if 153 million bucks is a drop in the bucket to you then god bless ya. For mostly everybody else that has a real impact. For that kind of money they can reconstruct One Beacon St.

Most likely the relative cheapness of the design is related to having to pony up that sum, which was needed to get the legislature to change the law and overcome any and all nonsensical lawsuits and other regulatory hurdles like the Mass Historical Commission. The alternative would be a 300 ft groundscraper or a crumbling garage. The current design works well enough. The last time somebody told me to not sacrifice anything unless I got my way 100%, it was during the 2016 presidential election and look how that turned out!
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Tell me Rover, what is preventing the architect from using the same cheap material that is being used for the current iteration, and instead of designing three different buildings with it, make one design that is applied throughout the tower? Btw, I'm talking about the facade, not the size of the tower or the shape so try reading my post correctly.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

KentXie said:
Tell me Rover, what is preventing the architect from using the same cheap material that is being used for the current iteration, and instead of designing three different buildings with it, make one design that is applied throughout the tower? Btw, I'm talking about the facade, not the size of the tower or the shape so try reading my post correctly.
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You would have to ask the architect/developer (who I imagine is pulling the strings here) but I forced to speculate I'm sure its profit related. Point being, for $153M bucks I'm willing to give a bit more leeway than on a different project that isn't kicking in a whopping sum.

Consider 1 Dalton, which most people seem to be happy with. Design stayed pretty similar, building up to heights not seen since the early 70's, etc. What's the difference? Owners own the land free and clear (Christian Scientists) and zero NIMBY extortion because nobody wants to extort a church. Hence you get some eye candy going on the skyline.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The millennium group owns the politicians. This fucking group built a tower in San Fran that is basically sinking sideways. They need 8 million in tax dollars to start downtown tower claiming economic uncertainty to build in these times but sells 40 of the units for 10million.
Why not give back the tax incentives.
Now look at this sham of a development process. This group knows all the angles because of all their ties these political scumbags running our city.

What’s next we need 20million in taxpayers perks to get the foundation in?

The politicians should have not let them win this site with all the problems going on with San Francisco or until how that situation panned out. Who is handling these contracts and bidding process for the city? Let’s gets some names
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TheRifleman said:
The millennium group owns the politicians. This fucking group built a tower in San Fran that is basically sinking sideways. They need 8 million in tax dollars to start downtown tower claiming economic uncertainty to build in these times but sells 40 of the units for 10million.
Why not give back the tax incentives.
Now look at this sham of a development process. This group knows all the angles because of all their ties these political scumbags running our city.

What’s next we need 20million in taxpayers perks to get the foundation in?

The politicians should have not let them win this site with all the problems going on with San Francisco or until how that situation panned out. Who is handling these contracts and bidding process for the city? Let’s gets some names
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Lol, you got everything wrong possible, with the exception of the sinking tower, which of course has nothing whatsoever to do with building a tower in Boston despite your desperate, shrill claims to the contrary.

1.) The $8 million tax break was not to start building the Tower, but to make the Burnham Building renovation more feasible by making it easier to lure Roche Bros., etc., as commercial tenants.

2.) To get the foundation in, you need to have the project approved. It is not yet approved. The demolition only required a demolition permit.

3.) The BPDA and Economic Dev. office for the City were of course the ones handling the overall process for awarding 115 Winthrop to MPartners and its ongoing oversight. BPDA Director is Brian Golden, Econ. Dev. director is John Barros, project manager is Casey Hines. This is all over the BPDA website and in all communications they've sent. Do you need it written in the sky by one of those skywriting planes?

As usual, ranting and raving without doing a modicum of research leads to a total lack of credibility.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

You keep complaining about Millennium paying back 8 million in tax incentives given 5 years ago. However the amount they offered was 50-100 million dollars more then any of the other bids. That's more then enough to "pay back" the tax incentive they got in 2013.

Please stop using that dumb argument on this proposal. If your goal is maximizing the money that the city gets you want this to be built as soon as possible.
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

After the garage is completely gone, make this spot a park. Or another parking garage. Or a fucking drive-in theater. Anything other than what's currently on the table for this "skyscraper." Boston's better than this. Hopefully Marty or someone else steps up before this monstrosity gets built.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

DBM said:
But ultimately it's clownish, because the names--and their affiliated e-addresses--are all over the BPDA website.

Another example, I just Googled "115 Winthrop Sq. RFP" and came up with this link. Someone named Ed O'Donnell was overseeing the RFP process, and, oh look, his email address is. right. there:

http://www.bostonplans.org/work-with-us/rfps-rfqs-bids/rfp-listing-page?id=78
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Of course but to the uninitiated he comes across as a guy with anger issues and an axe to grind against Millennium and the city who might take things a step beyond civil communication through the appropriate channels.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

No politician or anyone for that matter would turn down $150M...this thing will be built unless it comes out that MP are involve in sexual harassment.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

chrisbrat said:
After the garage is completely gone, make this spot a park. Or another parking garage. Or a fucking drive-in theater. Anything other than what's currently on the table for this "skyscraper." Boston's better than this. Hopefully Marty or someone else steps up before this monstrosity gets built.
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The color of the curtain wall certainly looks terrible. Perhaps the finished building wouldn't be as bad as the render/s. i wonder if they'd presented the same 691' slag tower [except having a color mix like 33 Arch] would have invoked such a united repugnant reaction.


stick n move said:
33arch4.png
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

for those convinced that i and others over here are "crazy" and going overboard in our reactions, figured i'd share that extremely negative reactions to this current proposal are not limited to AB.org.

from skyscrapercity, user "TheIllinoisan":

This is an abomination. The ugly offset windows, the disharmony between the various confused textures, and the horrendous tumor-like window at the top all add up to an attrocious design. Its like the architect didnt know what to do and so decided to slap a bunch of different rejected designs together.

This is pathetic, and it shames the clean and stoic towers around it. This will be an awful blight on the Boston skyline. One of the cleanest and classiest skylines in the world.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Interesting that people are ripping this tower when it is in fact much better than most of the downtown towers we have already.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

haha the building next to it, 133 Federal, might be the ugliest building in Boston. Looks like an egg crate.
 
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