Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

BKNA said:
you realize that none of this was true at the time of the tax break right? and none if it has anything to do with the waterfront area.
whether tax incentives is a good idea or not can be debated all you want, but your argument cant be that it was a boom town when Vertex got its deal.

Not to mention Fan Pier, Pier 4, Wateside Place, and Seaport Square were all permitted in the early 2000s and 10 years later ZERO had happened in the area.

So yes, the Vertex deal did pave the way and got the ball rolling for the area. Maybe it would have happened anyway, but theres no way to know that. This development boom could have been happening in other areas and not the waterfront since nobody wanted to be 1st.

now, back on topic...
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Bullshit----For the right price you always have a dreamer/investor. The seaport was all flat land parking lots. Our politicans gave Fallon, JPM, GE all these other group unlimited incentives to swindle prime property from the taxpayers For christsake they gave Liberty Mutual an incredible deal.

The politicans are creating massive income inequality in Boston & the surrounding areas because of their corrupt dealings.
Tax breaks/incentives to the corporations
Foodstamps/Subsidize housing for the poor. Which in time will be forced out wherever because the property becomes to value.

Working class families---TOO BAD

All the poor people that live in subsidized housing will be forced into springfield in the future.

Back to Winthrop Corrupt Garage.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

BKNA said:
you realize that none of this was true at the time of the tax break right? and none if it has anything to do with the waterfront area.
whether tax incentives is a good idea or not can be debated all you want, but your argument cant be that it was a boom town when Vertex got its deal.

Not to mention Fan Pier, Pier 4, Wateside Place, and Seaport Square were all permitted in the early 2000s and 10 years later ZERO had happened in the area.

So yes, the Vertex deal did pave the way and got the ball rolling for the area. Maybe it would have happened anyway, but theres no way to know that. This development boom could have been happening in other areas and not the waterfront since nobody wanted to be 1st.

now, back on topic...
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Too much revisionism for me to remain silent.

The following public investments and construction projects were wrapping up in the Seaport between 1995 and 2005:
BCEC construction
Central Artery tunnel ramps
MBTA Silver Line infra and tunnel
Courthouse on Fan Pier
2-year BRA moratorium (IPOD) on construction for Seaport "planning" process
Municipal Harbor Plan process

Impacts of Harbor Cleanup during this period (waning stench) is worth considering.

Fallon Co. bought in 2005, already permitted by Pritzker. By the time of that acquisition, ICA was nearing completion on Fan Pier.

New England Development secured permits for Pier 4 in 2005.

Fallon Co.'s One Marina Park Drive broke ground on Fan Pier around 2008, completed by 2010 (well before Vertex).

The recession of 2008 slowed progress, roughly between 2008 and 2010.

Seaport Square master plan was filed in 2008. The PDA was approved in 2010.

So not exactly "ZERO" happened between 2000 and 2010. The Seaport was primed by billions in public investment between 1995 and 2005, and a number of projects rolled in. Might as well mention on Massport land Seaport Hotel, Seaport East/West, Waterside Place, Park Lane, Renaissance, Westin, Hancock and more.

Back to Winthrop Square?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Next public meeting: Monday, March 5th from 6 PM to 8 PM at 33 Arch St (29th floor).
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Perhaps if you want a better Tower you guys should design it. There might be a way they can make it less 'turdy,' keep the density and make money. Possibly two separate Peaks somewhat similar to Steve Belkin's plan – but an improved design.

How about an irregular polygon with a with a spire to break up the row of low buildings 115 Winthrop forms on that side?
 
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I wish. If I had the opportunity to redesigned the building, I would have it mimicked the adjacent 101 Federal Street tower for the T shape portion with small setbacks on the top of each branch of the T.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

If I were to redesign the building, I would have gone with the Asian inspired theme, the one that looked like an elongated birds nest. Would have changed Boston's appearance quite a bit.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Agree with BeeLine. More elegant would have been better.

Does anyone know if the design is now final or if they'll potentially tweak its ugliness a bit?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I was also a fan of the Accordia proposal. My only critique of that was that architects need to stop showing unrealistic trees in tower renderings. For one, high places are inhospitable to the kinds of vegetation we keep seeing in renders. Up there it's hotter, colder, and crucially, windier. And also, tall trees are heavy have expansive root systems. While it's possible that they're as shallow as depicted, they'd have a hard time surviving in those conditions.

Long story short, there'd be a lot less green in a realization of the above, but it still beats the hell out of what we're going to get.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Millennium offered 100 million more then Accordia did. The BDPA and the city would have been vilified in the news and by watchdogs if they accepted the Accordia proposal over the Millennium one.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

cadetcarl said:
I was also a fan of the Accordia proposal. My only critique of that was that architects need to stop showing unrealistic trees in tower renderings. For one, high places are inhospitable to the kinds of vegetation we keep seeing in renders. Up there it's hotter, colder, and crucially, windier. And also, tall trees are heavy have expansive root systems. While it's possible that they're as shallow as depicted, they'd have a hard time surviving in those conditions.

Long story short, there'd be a lot less green in a realization of the above, but it still beats the hell out of what we're going to get.
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Towers like the Accordia proposal have never been built here. It's ignorant to say we'd never see that kind of vegetation on a tall building here. Milan, Singapore, and even Miami have all sorts of vegetation growing on their buildings. Though it may look different, Boston's climate could certainly accommodate that kind of vertical greenery as well.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

dshoost88 said:
Towers like the Accordia proposal have never been built here. It's ignorant to say we'd never see that kind of vegetation on a tall building here. Milan, Singapore, and even Miami have all sorts of vegetation growing on their buildings. Though it may look different, Boston's climate could certainly accommodate that kind of vertical greenery as well.
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Right but wouldn't said vegetation be brown for half the year up here, while staying lush and green in Miami and Singapore (not sure about Milan).

tysmith95 said:
Millennium offered 100 million more then Accordia did. The BDPA and the city would have been vilified in the news and by watchdogs if they accepted the Accordia proposal over the Millennium one.
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Yup. A point people seem to be missing all too often in this discussion. Sorta like $100M bucks just materializes all the time so take the prettier option instead...:rolleyes:
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I actually think the subtle changes they made to the design since the unveiling make a big difference toward an acceptable outcome.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Rover said:
Yup. A point people seem to be missing all too often in this discussion. Sorta like $100M bucks just materializes all the time so take the prettier option instead...:rolleyes:
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Yup and that's why I'd redesign it so it looks more like 101 Federal Street with setbacks which is conservative and not ugly and probably won't cost more (maybe even cost less due to consistent material and less glass so it doesn't need to deal with heating issues). But of course, this requires architects who don't treat Boston as a dumping ground for rejected designs.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

KentXie said:
Yup and that's why I'd redesign it so it looks more like 101 Federal Street with setbacks which is conservative and not ugly and probably won't cost more (maybe even cost less due to consistent material and less glass so it doesn't need to deal with heating issues). But of course, this requires architects who don't treat Boston as a dumping ground for rejected designs.
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Office tower vs Luxury condo, apartments and Hotel tower... it's a bit Apples to Oranges.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

For the maximum revenue they're going for, the parcel seems to encourage a twin peaked tower. Not sure how an architectural style a la 101 Fed would work in that regime, but it certainly could and look better than what they have now. They've got two peaks. But, the way they're doing it is uninspired and destitute.

In that way, Belkin's tower plan would have succeeded (in softening the blow).
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

617 said:
I actually think the subtle changes they made to the design since the unveiling make a big difference toward an acceptable outcome.
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Absolutely! It's a bit like what a competent undertaker would do with a mangled corpse.

BeeLine said:
I'm a little more conservative and would do something elegant like this.

Accordia's second offering.
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Acordia 2.0 was the most compelling tower proposal in a generation. I appreciated the subtle way it referenced other towers around town, the cantilevers of One Post Office Square and BofA, the ribbed facade of One Boston Place. There are real ideas and themes in all the work I've seen from SHoP. More often than not, contemporary architecture (especially tall buildings) evoke a visceral response; I dream of an age of more cerebral skyscrapers.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Sorry for the late response on this one.

KentXie said:
Is that really what the facade for the sides are going to look like, because we already have something like that:

east_village.jpg
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I can see how this is what came to your mind. However, this is what I thought of.

33164335561_ee033b74d0_b.jpg
 
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