Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Its not tall enough? If it was outdoors it would be on top of the roof, which is the tallest point in downtown. They already need a service elevator to get to the mech floor on the roof. Use that elevator, make it service elevator dimensions, but use it to bring a bunch of people up to the roof everyday, then theres no reason maint. workers cant use this same elevator, go up with the people, and when they get to the roof get off the elevator and just walk off to the door that only they have the keys to to get to the mechanical systems. Then if you need to bring big equipment up, just do it during off hours.

It also doesn't matter if it was a "stupid" requirement, thats an opinion, and it was a requirement regardless of if you think its stupid or not. I happen to think it would be badass and was a good requirement to have. I just solved the elevator problem in 2 seconds then with regards to the tenants not wanting people around, its a city. Not to mention the "great hall" is designed to attract people to come to this building and also serves as a pass through to the other street so theres going to be lots of people around this tower no matter what.

Theres already going to be a bunch of people in here anyways, who cares if some of them are going to go up to the roof.

I don't get why you guys are so worried about the rich people that live in this building having to mingle with the peasants like us? Ordinary people like you and me that just want to get a good view of downtown and have our kids be able to experience something really cool as well is too much to ask? Whats so bad about that? I want to be able to go up to the top of this tower and look around off into the harbor, or in the other direction see the Hancock looming over the back bay. Theres nothing wrong with that and theres nothing like being able to see your city from that perspective. These people that your worried about having to mingle with us po' folk get to have that view out their bathroom window. I think they can deal with some pedestrians being around their building... that is in the center of downtown. Why would you not want to benefit from this either when we have the chance? Why just defend that the rich people should have all the views that this tower allots to themselves and we are unworthy. Screw that I want to be able to look out over this beautiful city from the roof and take in the views. Am I unworthy of that? Even though this is a requirement to top it off..


If you can see this from within MT, the top of the roof of this tower is much higher and imagine what you could see?

How is it stupid to give those views to the public and tourists that visit our city. Why not allow ourselves to have these amazing views, and also allow tourists to get the full experience while their here and really see Boston from an amazing perspective. Im not worried about the millionaires having 1 less square foot in their multi million dollar condo so an elevator can get to the roof, which I gave an alternate option anyways that would take up no extra room at all. I don't want to settle for less Id like to have as many options as I can, and this is one of them. Plus its good for the city if it becomes a part of the fabric of the city and not a statue behind a rope like the Hancock that you just get to look at. I want to interact with this building in the "great hall" and on a roof deck. I want to be able to pass through this building to get to the other street if I have to, but Id also like to on a day off be able to ride an elevator up to the top of this thing and just sit there and stare off into the distance. Nothing wrong with any of that and I don't get why we would purposefully write ourselves off from this and say its for rich people only. F that.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This tower won't be taller then the original Millennium Tower.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Whats the Original Millennium tower isn't that the Ritz? Anyways this is supposed to be about 5 feet taller than MT but if ground elevation makes it shorter so what? What does that have to do with if we should be allowed to take in the views from the top of this tower or not. I don't personally care if some millionaire doesn't like having more people around the tower- that is in the center of downtown Boston with a pass through lobby with retail shops inside it that will draw a lot of people anyways. I care whether or not I am able to go enjoy a nice view or not along with millions of other people over time.

Having an observation deck means ordinary people like us get to see this:

No observation deck here means only a few select millionaires get to ever enjoy this.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Cohesiveness is not synonymous with boring. The misconception among architects that a design needs to have a jarring - and often exhausted - motif bolted-on to spice things up is detrimental to the finished product.

100000% agree. Just like how the crown on this tower has a purpose as the lines that make up the facade continue up to form the crown. Simple things like that make things elegant, not slapping on all kinds of whirly doo dads and 15 different shades of blue glass like on 888 Boylston.

 

[kmp1284]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I don't get why you guys are so worried about the rich people that live in this building having to mingle with the peasants like us? Ordinary people like you and me that just want to get a good view of downtown and have our kids be able to experience something really cool as well is too much to ask?

It's not a simple matter of the "rich not wishing to mingle with the peasants" as it is a legitimate concern that the target demographic will not want to live in a building with an observation deck.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

We can agree to disagree.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It's not a simple matter of the "rich not wishing to mingle with the peasants" as it is a legitimate concern that the target demographic will not want to live in a building with an observation deck.

This is a mixed use building, the buyers of condos are by definition going to be mingling with others conducting business or shopping in the building.

Provide a separate elevator for the observation deck to separate the traffic. The issue is really cost (to the developer, both for the elevator and the space it takes up reducing floor space for sale).

 

[617]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This design would be compete if they took away the odd orange section on the lower half of its side and kept the sky bridge the same all the way down.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This design would be compete if they took away the odd orange section on the lower half of its side [...]

That orange section will be covered up by its neighbors, which are as little as 3 feet from that wall. You see it in the renders only because neighboring buildings are cut away.

There's no point in spending a ton of money on glass curtain wall that will never be seen by anyone.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This design would be compete if they took away the odd orange section on the lower half of its side and kept the sky bridge the same all the way down.

A building pretty much directly abuts the orange section. You'll never even see it.

 

[617]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

A building pretty much directly abuts the orange section. You'll never even see it.

Ok then...why orange tho? Is it copper ? Bc that ages and fades into the background which is cool.

But the skybridge should be consistent the whole way down...I think it would enhance the overall look as well as the “slimness”. It may actually make it look more like two distinct buildings which is cool.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

That orange section will be covered up by its neighbors, which are as little as 3 feet from that wall.

I believe it's 3' form the lot line but 25'-30' from the adjacent buildings.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Ok then...why orange tho? Is it copper ? Bc that ages and fades into the background which is cool.

Do you realize how expensive copper is?

I believe it's 3' form the lot line but 25'-30' from the adjacent buildings.

Part of 100 Summer comes right up to the lot line; hence, "as little as 3 feet." Even for the rest of the neighbors that are set back, the orange will still be very minimally visible from the street.

 

[jl326]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I don't get why you guys are so worried about the rich people that live in this building having to mingle with the peasants like us? Ordinary people like you and me that just want to get a good view of downtown and have our kids be able to experience something really cool as well is too much to ask? Whats so bad about that? I want to be able to go up to the top of this tower and look around off into the harbor, or in the other direction see the Hancock looming over the back bay. Theres nothing wrong with that and theres nothing like being able to see your city from that perspective. These people that your worried about having to mingle with us po' folk get to have that view out their bathroom window. I think they can deal with some pedestrians being around their building... that is in the center of downtown. Why would you not want to benefit from this either when we have the chance? Why just defend that the rich people should have all the views that this tower allots to themselves and we are unworthy. Screw that I want to be able to look out over this beautiful city from the roof and take in the views. Am I unworthy of that? Even though this is a requirement to top it off..

Stick, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that vast majority of people here are not concerning themselves with the worries of the "rich." In fact, I'd say it's generally been quite the complete opposite based on my time here on the forum.

I think there's merit in pointing out the additional costs and logistics of an observation deck and pondering the likelihood of it happening. That is fair. I also agree that if it known that an observation deck were to exist, buyers will have that information before purchasing and there should be no problems there. The market will take care of itself in that regard.

A final point. No matter how much money one has, there will still be a limited very finite number of units in this building. Just because you are "rich" doesn't mean you'll get to enjoy the views here. Without an observation deck, it will still be limited to just a very small subset of that group (the buyers). With an observation deck, the vast majority of the "rich" will still be only able to enjoy the views the same way as almost everyone else. I'm just trying to get away from the notion that no observation deck = benefits for all the rich.

A deck would be pretty cool if it were to happen.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It benefits the rich people in this building who buy the units, I thought that was obvious. I didnt say at all that it benefits all rich people... Im saying it will mean only the rich people that buy a unit in this tower will get this view, when an observation deck was part of the requirements and so all of us are supposed to be able to get it as well. The person I was addressing was worried about the rich condo owners having to be interrupted by us going to an observation deck. Thats him concerning himself with them. I explained already how the elevator issue can be handled. If it were an outdoor observation deck it would also be separated from the top unit by the mechanical floors. The argument though that theyd have to deal with a bunch of extra people is moot though, seeing that half of this is an office tower so a few thousand workers will already come and go anyways, along with the people using the great hall so its not going to be just people with units here coming and going that an obs deck would interrupt.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^^my 0.02; you'd have to decrease the benefits by $30~40M. i put that lofty number with restraint. could be a $100M hit to put up an extra elevator shaft, lose that space, lose a floor, and deflate the value of the residences. Those last few floors + penthouse units are the $166M.

 

[kmp1284]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It benefits the rich people in this building who buy the units, I thought that was obvious. I didnt say at all that it benefits all rich people... Im saying it will mean only the rich people that buy a unit in this tower will get this view, when an observation deck was part of the requirements and so all of us are supposed to be able to get it as well. The person I was addressing was worried about the rich condo owners having to be interrupted by us going to an observation deck. Thats him concerning himself with them. I explained already how the elevator issue can be handled. If it were an outdoor observation deck it would also be separated from the top unit by the mechanical floors. The argument though that theyd have to deal with a bunch of extra people is moot though, seeing that half of this is an office tower so a few thousand workers will already come and go anyways, along with the people using the great hall so its not going to be just people with units here coming and going that an obs deck would interrupt.

With an observation deck, many of the people who'd entertain buying here would probably reconsider on privacy and security grounds.

To simplify this as much as possible: No buyers, no building.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^^my 0.02; you'd have to decrease the benefits by $30~40M. i put that lofty number with restraint. could be a $69M hit to put up an extra elevator shaft, lose that space, lose a floor, and deflate the value of the residences. Those last few floors are the $166M.

How many times do I have to say you dont need an extra elevator shaft before somebody will read the word that I type?

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

How many times do I have to say you dont need an extra elevator shaft before somebody will read the word that I type?

But you really do need a dedicated elevator for an observation deck. It's how these things work.

There are office elevators, there are residential elevators, there are service elevators, and there are observation deck elevators. And even within those categories, there are usually different banks dedicated to different groups of floors. If dedicated service elevators weren't necessary, we wouldn't have them. But we do have them because they are necessary. Literally thousands of buildings have been built in this country with elevators, and that's how they all work.

A company I used to work for was a major tenant in a prominent office tower in Downtown Chicago. They had multiple floors in the building split over two non-contiguous chunks, and these chunks were served by different elevator banks. This was a royal pain, because if you wanted to go to a meeting on floor 18 from your office on floor 45 (or something like that...) you had to go down to the lobby, change elevator banks, and then come back up again. Then after the meeting you had to do it again in reverse. This whole wait-down-switch-wait-up-wait-down-switch-wait-up commute typically took 10-15 minutes each time. With hundreds of employees, that wasted time every day probably cost the company over a million dollars per year. As part of renegotiating the lease, a deal was reached where the landlord would re-arrange one elevator so that it could serve both groups of floors. Negotiating this with the landlord took months, and then implementing the change took literally years. Changing the priority of one elevator affected other tenants in the building, and I believe that some of their leases then had to also be re-negotiated accordingly.

Elevator priority in large buildings is a very complicated balance. Change one thing with the way elevators are arranged and it can throw off the delicate balance within the building significantly. A building like 115 Winthrop Square will have thousands of people living and working in it every day, and easily hundreds of deliveries/service calls per day using the service elevators. All of these people are fighting for limited elevator space. Throw an observation deck in there and the entire system gets thrown out of wack. Saying that observation deck visitors can basically "just share" is incredibly over-simplistic.

I just solved the elevator problem in 2 seconds

Just because you said that you "solved the elevator problem in 2 seconds" doesn't mean that you actually did.

 

[fattony]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

How many times do I have to say you dont need an extra elevator shaft before somebody will read the word that I type?

Not that I've been to many observation decks (ESB, Rock Center, Hancock Center), but I've never been to one without dedicated elevators. Can you give an example of an observation deck that doesn't have dedicated elevators?