Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

But you really do need a dedicated elevator for an observation deck. It's how these things work.

There are office elevators, there are residential elevators, there are service elevators, and there are observation deck elevators. And even within those categories, there are usually different banks dedicated to different groups of floors. If dedicated service elevators weren't necessary, we wouldn't have them. But we do have them because they are necessary. Literally thousands of buildings have been built in this country with elevators, and that's how they all work.

^^At least from the top of th eoffice tower... that means a dedicated elevator rising ~28 floors.

Stick is in error.

1. ~$100 Million hit 2. we're talking about an observation deck that totally died (re; cost strapped project) when they dropped the height to 690'?

 

[kmp1284]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

How many times do I have to say you dont need an extra elevator shaft before somebody will read the word that I type?

You can say whatever you want until you're blue in the face but this would require a separate elevator(probably two) and a stairwell independent of that for the residential units plus a lobby and some back office space on the ground floor for managing the business of the attraction.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Not that I've been to many observation decks (ESB, Rock Center, Hancock Center), but I've never been to one without dedicated elevators. Can you give an example of an observation deck that doesn't have dedicated elevators?

I can give 2 examples right in Boston, but neither of them would work in this situation.

1. Marriott Custom House - It works because they only allow people up one time per day, at 2:00. It's not an ongoing disruption to hotel guests.

2. Independence Wharf - It works because hardly anybody knows about it, and it's not a great deck to begin with.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

This tower won't be taller then the original Millennium Tower.

Unless they revise it again, this is wrong.

First of all, the obvious is that 691' > 685'.

Second, even if you're talking height above sea level, the new one is either the same or 1' taller.

Here's MT, 709' above sea level to the height point. The 677' is because it was measured from Washington Street, so Hawley would have given it the extra 8' to 685'. (but not extra feet above sea level)
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=184194255&row=33

Here's the Winthrop Square Tower. Obviously it has been revised since then, but note the 19' above sea level plus expected 691' tower would give us 710'.
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=329169789&row=14

Not to mention, MT's full height is only up to that one pointy corner. This new building will not only be taller, but have a flat roof so the entire building will probably give off the impression of being upwards of a couple floors higher than MT.

 

[617]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Do you realize how expensive copper is?


Do you realize how ugly an orange building is ?

I’m simply trying to justify why the fing building is that color.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^^my guess, so that the fatness of the tower is reduced by means of coloring the outcropping such that, at a glance, it appears like a different building from certain downtown vistas. Very hard to tell if the colors will clash with the surroundings. Balsy, nevertheless.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

With an observation deck, many of the people who'd entertain buying here would probably reconsider on privacy and security grounds.

To simplify this as much as possible: No buyers, no building.

Then sucks for them because there will be plenty of people lined up right behind them to buy a condo in the tallest brand new residential tower in downtown. I don't think people would care... like at all. This is a mixed use tower already so there are going to be thousands of people going to and from their offices every day, along with passing through the great hall, so they wouldn't even notice. Its not a secluded residential, the lower half is an office tower. The great hall literally invites the public to come hang out at the base level of this tower and use it as a pass through between streets, theres going to be a lot of activity. An observation deck would not affect their experience at all, especially if its built on top of the roof and above the top mech floor separating this from the top res floor. No floors lost whatsoever, and no space lost to the elevator either.

That being said me personally I would go 1 further and put a restaurant at the very top floor so the public has a restaurant with a view of the harbor and Custom House tower while they're eating, we deserve this. Then an escalator going up to the roof deck observation area from here just like the old WTC did. That means this tower would really become a part of the fabric of Boston and not an art exhibit behind a rope like the Hancock is that you just get to look at but don't touch. I would make this have the restaurant with the best views in the city, the roof deck for tourists to get to take in the amazing views of Boston, which would be stop #1 for most tourists just like the ESB or top of the rock is for tourists in NYC, and It'll have the great hall so people get to pass through the tower to the other street as a shortcut, and they can also stop and shop as well. The restaurant wouldn't affect people below either since they have a private restaurant mid way up MT and it doesn't affect anyone either. Give back to the public with the restaurant, obs deck, and great hall. Theres plenty of people who want to buy in towers like this if someone doesn't like these things then move aside because the next man will. Although your really not going to notice with half of the tower being an office tower and the great hall is public as well. Why not give back to the public? I don't get why people would not want this...


Ill explain the elevator again:

You already need a service elevator to get up to the mechanical structures on the top floor/roof. So its already being built regardless. Make it look like a regular elevator but really big like service elevators are, then you can fit a lot of people in it as well, use this service elevator to get the people to the roof of the building and then if there are a couple workers on the elevator with you, they can go off in their own direction that they need to go to get to the mech. If for some reason they don't want any workers with the guests...ever, then just have them go up after hours, along with bringing up heavy objects after hours.

Then if the restaurant plan was implemented, use the same idea but either have this big "service size" elevator stop at the restaurant level and then have tourists take an escalator up to the roof like the old wtc. or still have it stop at the roof and people wanting to go to the restaurant can take an escalator down to the restaurant or stairs. I think stopping at the restaurant would be better, copy the wtc style it worked great, but if theres no restaurant just use the other method where a service elevator stops on the roof and tourists use it during the day, maint uses it after hours. Whats the prob here? It gives back to the community and also makes money for the tower. I would love to eat at a restaurant with the custom house tower out the window and the harbor in the distance with the roof tops of downtown in front of me would you not? I also would love to go up to the roof to the only open air outdoor observation deck of this height in the city and be able to feel the air/breeze while looking out at the ocean, planes taking off and landing, the bunker hill monument, Zakim bridge, Hancock and Pru looking in the distance... This would be amazing.

Escalator going to roof deck:

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Ill explain the elevator again:

You already need a service elevator to get up to the mechanical structures on the top floor/roof. So its already being built regardless. Make it look like a regular elevator but really big like service elevators are, then you can fit a lot of people in it as well, use this service elevator to get the people to the roof of the building and then if there are a couple workers on the elevator with you, they can go off in their own direction that they need to go to get to the mech. If for some reason they don't want any workers with the guests...ever, then just have them go up after hours, along with bringing up heavy objects after hours.

A service elevators that reaches the roof doesn't just sit around vacant all day, waiting for someone to move machinery to the roof. It's constantly in use serving all the other lower floors. If observation deck/restaurant visitors are using the service elevator, then the people who would usually use that elevator (maintenance workers, movers, delivery people, contractors, etc.) don't have a means of getting up and down. Think of it this way: practically everything that comes in through a loading dock goes up through a service elevator. That's a lot of stuff, and that's a lot of people consistently coming and going all day. It's just not true that service elevators are only occasionally used to move machinery up the building; they have tons of other uses as well. If it were true that service elevators were just excess capacity waiting to be utilized, then every building would be doing so already.

Getting observation deck visitors from the top floor to the roof wouldn't be a problem, but getting a steady stream of visitors from the street level to the top floor without their own elevator would be.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Then build them their own elevator. It was required and I highlighted why it would be beneficial to the city as a whole. I dont care if Joe Moneybags has 5 less sq ft in his pent house apt so thousands upon thousands of people can take in this view every year. The building is getting built regardless, people will buy the units regardless, Id just like to see this requirement filled and the people gain a wonderful public space from this.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Then build them their own elevator. It was required and I highlighted why it would be beneficial to the city as a whole. I dont care if Joe Moneybags has 5 less sq ft in his pent house apt so thousands upon thousands of people can take in this view every year. The building is getting built regardless, people will buy the units regardless, Id just like to see this requirement filled and the people gain a wonderful public space from this.

Save up your energy, and transfer it to the Volpe project. If they could get 500'+ over there, imagine THAT view. It would be the absolute best in Boston!

You're beating a dead horse on this one. It's not going to happen.

 

[chrisbrat]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

why so energized about trying to get the fourth tallest building in the city to fulfill a "required" observation deck clause when the actual tallest has failed to comply with its own required observation deck for 16 years? seems to me the energy and anger could be better directed at the owners of a building that already exists and which took away a public resource, rather than worry about what a still-in-development, much-shorter (and uglier) building may wind up doing if and when it ever gets built.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The Hancock view is basically the same view as the pru so its not that big of a loss, plus the pru has the restaurant. It would be cool to see an unobstructed view of downtown, but they lost the paperwork saying it has to have an obs deck so thats a lost cause. This view like I showed from the MT construction photos does not have an equal or anything even close in Boston, and the building isnt even built so they can still fit this requirement in. I also advocated for an outdoor deck which we dont have on any tall building in this city. Im on your side, I want to see everybody on this board able to go to the top of this building and take in the views. Downtown feels like a completely diff city. I had a meeting at the VA office in the JFK building and went in the stair well and made it up to roof level and its a glass stair case and the view is incredible. Seeing the harbor from downtown is incredible.

 

[bigpicture7]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

^ stick, if you've not tried it already, visit the Custom Tower observation deck for a great and similar view. As DZH mentioned, access is at a specific time and you need to go to the lobby desk reserve a spot (cost is pretty trivial IIRC). But it's worth it, and offers a view similar to what you seek (the difference being you get less of the Common b/c of a few taller buildings between). You do get a wonderful sense of the harbor on one side, and a really neat feeling of being in the midst of a forest of office towers on the other.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Yea I know about the Custom House tower, Im not talking about where to go, theres a couple spots, Im talking about a requirement for a 690' building that would benefit everyone here.

Anyways its beating a dead horse with a stick at this point now so no biggie. Im very happy with the changes to the tower now and I hope the next changes are very slight from what is there now. That was why I brought up the obs deck because more is coming, but I hope on the outside it stays the same. Although if they got rid of that orange thing Id be happy, but besides that keep it as is.

 

[Boston02124]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Unless they revise it again, this is wrong.

First of all, the obvious is that 691' > 685'.

Second, even if you're talking height above sea level, the new one is either the same or 1' taller.

Here's MT, 709' above sea level to the height point. The 677' is because it was measured from Washington Street, so Hawley would have given it the extra 8' to 685'. (but not extra feet above sea level)
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=184194255&row=33

Here's the Winthrop Square Tower. Obviously it has been revised since then, but note the 19' above sea level plus expected 691' tower would give us 710'.
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=329169789&row=14

Not to mention, MT's full height is only up to that one pointy corner. This new building will not only be taller, but have a flat roof so the entire building will probably give off the impression of being upwards of a couple floors higher than MT.

Sorry if I’m being lazy and don’t want to scroll back but what the height of the shorter tower?

 

[odurandina]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Unless they revise it again, this is wrong.

First of all, the obvious is that 691' > 685'.

Second, even if you're talking height above sea level, the new one is either the same or 1' taller.

Here's MT, 709' above sea level to the height point. The 677' is because it was measured from Washington Street, so Hawley would have given it the extra 8' to 685'. (but not extra feet above sea level)
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=184194255&row=33

Here's the Winthrop Square Tower. Obviously it has been revised since then, but note the 19' above sea level plus expected 691' tower would give us 710'.
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=329169789&row=14

Not to mention, MT's full height is only up to that one pointy corner. This new building will not only be taller, but have a flat roof so the entire building will probably give off the impression of being upwards of a couple floors higher than MT.

Thanks for digging up these figures. ...So, now we know that from a distance, the flat roof of the main tower will rest 1 foot taller than the tip of MT.

This will look considerably tall but not be the Downtown Crown. Instead, it will form the roof w/ MT and possibly, eventually, 1 Bromfield St, which is destined to make a return.

*It might seem that the skyscraper overlords have forgotten about 1 Bromfield–but you would be wickedly mistaken.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Depends where your looking from.

That being said MT’s central location may keep it as the focal point of downtown for the forseeable future.

Also the green Accordia proposal had an indoor/outdoor obs deck and I dont remember anyone saying they should get rid of it...because it was badass. The green was a little much tho imo.

Its pretty sad that almost all the different renders of the different proposals that were in pgs 30-40s were on photobucket so theyre gone. Its a joke what they did. Even postimg has some warning up on the home page now so who knows with that site now. Anyways I re-ripped these to show the obs deck they had included and some other shots.

I dont remember 1 person complaining about this obs deck.

This was my favorite of them all though by far.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Look at the first picture view from South Station... wooooow. Imagine looking at that bag of ass every day.

TRINITY
HEIGHT: 725' TO UNKNOWN

RENDERS

PLANS, SECTIONS, ELEVATIONS

CONCEPT (Links to larger)

LOL. This was a slap in the balls. Anyone who puts the affordable housing and money aside and likes this the most from a purely architectural standpoint needs to retire. Just look at it lolllllll. That would have DEMOLISHED our skyline for the next 100 years. Irreversible turd smear right across the forehead of Boston. The architect must have been a Jets fan who thinks deflategate was real and wanted to say F Boston and everything you stand for or want to be in the future because once I squeeze this one out on your skyline its over, nothing you build will be able to make up for what I just did. I could see this architect twirling his moustache from the top of an art deco buildings gargoyle in the distance watching it go up with his eyeglass and right as it tops out in a deep voice he says...."Fatality".

 

[Equilibria]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

New BCDC presentation. No change to prior tower design - focus is on Federal St. entrance and Winthrop Square Park.

http://www.bostonplans.org/document...-winthrop-square-bcdc-presentation-2018-04-17

 

[chrisbrat]

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

at least it didn't get worse. still wish the great lobby with the arched entry/vaulted ceiling, but oh well.

also - count me in for the water feature. this whole joint needs more fountains, so: score.