Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Arch101 said:
The second try at Filene's got taller. Maybe TransNational can too.
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It can't because of the FAA. I forget the exact height limit here, but definitely under 1000'. This would still be a nice spot for something around 675-725'.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^Map is on page 49, post #967

Around 700'
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think 800 - 850 ft would fit perfect here
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Rumblings...

City Hall will tear down the garage and shop the parcel around. Belkin has been contacted... hmmm...
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The question though is what will be built? When the original TNP was proposed it was for the office market. The market has completely changed now, especially with so much new office space already coming on line in the SBW. If anything gets built here it will probably have a major residential component. Millennium Tower is only two blocks away.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

With financial district vacancies at 17.9% and climbing I think we all can forget about new office space here. Someone said a mix of hotel and residential earlier and I like that.

Question is is Steve Belkin capable of pulling off a proper mixed used development? With him only owning (as far as I can tell) an office building or two and no actual experience developing a building he'll need to A) decide he really wants to go forward with this, and B) bring in outside help e.g. a development partner that's been around this rodeo before. I for one know that dinky blue building TNG occupies over on Charlesgate doesn't inspire confidence in any real estate ambitions they might have.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

kz1000ps said:
With financial district vacancies at 17.9% and climbing I think we all can forget about new office space here. Someone said a mix of hotel and residential earlier and I like that.

Question is is Steve Belkin capable of pulling off a proper mixed used development? With him only owning (as far as I can tell) an office building or two and no actual experience developing a building he'll need to A) decide he really wants to go forward with this, and B) bring in outside help e.g. a development partner that's been around this rodeo before. I for one know that dinky blue building TNG occupies over on Charlesgate doesn't inspire confidence in any real estate ambitions they might have.
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Agreed that mixed use will be the most likely and financially viable option. Residential for sure if it reaches substantial height...much like 1 Franklin this would have excellent, excellent views once it gets past the "plateau" making it an easy sell comparatively to other "luxury" projects like the Kensington...

However, the office market is not weak at all (compared to other cities) and the financial district figure is more of a reflection that it has the highest % of out-of date office space in the region. Take a peak past the Fort Point channel where projects are actually going from residential to office.

Hope Belkin doesn't pull a Rosenthal with this one..


And now...back to the B's game..
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

kz1000ps said:
With financial district vacancies at 17.9% and climbing I think we all can forget about new office space here. Someone said a mix of hotel and residential earlier and I like that.

Question is is Steve Belkin capable of pulling off a proper mixed used development? With him only owning (as far as I can tell) an office building or two and no actual experience developing a building he'll need to A) decide he really wants to go forward with this, and B) bring in outside help e.g. a development partner that's been around this rodeo before. I for one know that dinky blue building TNG occupies over on Charlesgate doesn't inspire confidence in any real estate ambitions they might have.
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Hmm... I know a developer whose name starts with and ends with M...

*and also owns a large swath of the area...
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ Legitimate Question: Do you think Millennium has the resources to quickly turnaround off of Millennium Tower to another 600+ft tower in Boston?
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

BussesAin'tTrains said:
^ Legitimate Question: Do you think Millennium has the resources to quickly turnaround off of Millennium Tower to another 600+ft tower in Boston?
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Well, there was over a year-plus overlap (early 2012-late 2013) when they were building MPlace and also starting the Burnham/MTower project, so from a technical/logistical standpoint, there really doesn't seem like an issue.

Finance-wise, they obviously were also able to take out multiple (for MPlace and Burnham/MTower) loans totaling near a billion dollars.

So, if they don't have the resources... rhetorically speaking, who does?
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ Cool thanks. It would be interesting to see how they would tackle a second tower, and differentiate it from Burnham/MTower.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Hotel/residential here would be ideal. Grand hyatt or even st Regis? Personally I'd rather live in a high rise in Winthrop sq over the mtower.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Decay seems like the wrong word. In the real estate deals thread it said rents have ticked up, so there is a fair bit of interest. Also, hopefully the start ups keep getting momentum downtown.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Max Power said:
However, the office market is not weak at all (compared to other cities) and the financial district figure is more of a reflection that it has the highest % of out-of date office space in the region. Take a peak past the Fort Point channel where projects are actually going from residential to office.
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True, it's all the class B or C space dragging down the vacancy rate. But downtown property owners are also seeing the pendulum swing with all the new residential coming online and the influx of tech/boutique office tenants that don't want or need class A, and it seems that's giving them plenty of reason to sit on the sidelines until the real direction of downtown becomes clear.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If Belkin builds it I think he'll want at least enough office space for his company.

Regarding Millennium, they are building a tower in San Francisco currently as well, right? Both M. Towers, here and SF, would probably be done before groundbreaking on anything at Winthrop Sq anyway. Unless there has been secret progress, nobody has even started a design except Belkin and his is certainly stale by now.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

kz1000ps said:
With financial district vacancies at 17.9% and climbing I think we all can forget about new office space here. Someone said a mix of hotel and residential earlier and I like that.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the 17.9% number from? Last I heard a few months ago, the financial district vacancy rates were around 9.6%. Did it really almost double over the winter?
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I believe 17% is the overall vacancy rate, and 9% is class A. Any offices developed at Winthrop Sq would be class A, so 9% is the figure that matters more.

Good to see news on this coming out, but I'm not really sure what to expect if anything.
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

type001 said:
I believe 17% is the overall vacancy rate, and 9% is class A. Any offices developed at Winthrop Sq would be class A, so 9% is the figure that matters more.

Good to see news on this coming out, but I'm not really sure what to expect if anything.
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here is the article I saw over the winter. it does not differentiate between classes of space:

"Boston's Central Business District saw vacancy tumble below 10 percent to 9.6 percent, with an even lower 5.3 percent rate in the peripheral Central Boston areas (not including Financial District, Back Bay and Seaport District)." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greater-boston-office-market-vacancy-235100669.html
 
Re: Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

According to NGKF (http://www.ngkf.com/Uploads/FileManager/1Q14 Boston Office Market Report.pdf), the financial district has 12.4% office space vacancy, with 13.5% vacancy in high rise towers in the Financial District. The Central Business District as a whole has 9.5% vacancy (which includes areas like Back Bay), and all of Greater Boston has a vacancy rate of 11.9%.
 
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