Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That area is an absolute clusterfuck. I don't see much happening there until they get a lot of things straightened out first.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The highway is such an ugly eyesore and barrier. I wish there was a way to cover or submerge it.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

In an alternate reality extending the fort point channel into widette, fixing the highway mess, and extending both the southie and south end street grids over would be a huge spur of development. This used to be the south bay so technically you are in a way just restoring old boston.

 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If Southie/Dorchester and the South End are ever connected, the city will seem much bigger.

Sorry for derailing the thread.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think there are more lots open than people realize and this map doesn't include an air rights although it does show the space where the gateway proposal/vision is which does include some air rights.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z-P0elakuhEs.kZS5pCWvD5k4&usp=sharing

Obviously Boston is more limited in space than a lot of other cities but the air rights parcels will eventually be a more realistic option for developers as other parcels fill in and the city could decide to allow taller development in the LMA area to try and make an extension of downtown.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think there are more lots open than people realize and this map doesn't include an air rights although it does show the space where the gateway proposal/vision is which does include some air rights.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z-P0elakuhEs.kZS5pCWvD5k4&usp=sharing

Obviously Boston is more limited in space than a lot of other cities but the air rights parcels will eventually be a more realistic option for developers as other parcels fill in and the city could decide to allow taller development in the LMA area to try and make an extension of downtown.

Also, your map does not include all of the privately owned parking garages and surface parking that should be subject to serious review. Examples, Castle Square Garage (owned by Druker, definitely in the sights for development); Chinatown Gate Garage (on the Greenway!); 1000 Washington Garage....
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

While a lot of land is tied up by either developers or corporations/authorities (Massport & USPS in the below map), there is quite a bit of land ripe for major development in the heart of the city:

XlcLoji.png


That also looks like a seahorse. Seahorses rule.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

This project for some reason never can get momentum. If there were any projects I could bet against. I would bet this one does not get developed without sometype of incentive.

One of the reasons will be finding a major tenant to occupy the building.

Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2 = That Mass pike project that never got built.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

You take this, I'll take SST.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Ok this may start a bit of a tangent and apologies in advance, but Rifleman brings up a point on incentives and office space.

Several Winthrop proposals are residential only, as MT has shown luxury high rise can fly off downtown. However, Boston has very low office occupancy rates and extremely high rents.

However, there also seems to be few companies that could really take up a huge portion of a large tower to get a developer going. That seems like it will only be more difficult since even if it is a large company, they don't need as much room for things like servers and systems that will at one time ate up a lot of sq. ft. Today's offices can be pretty lean and mean. Combine it with Boston's increasingly start up eco-system, there are a lot of fast growing, fast moving but still small cos in need of space.

Even in a hot market, these factors (combined with high construction costs) have made the spec office market very limited here.

I do not support tax break giveaways, but I would wonder in this environment that if Boston wanted to incentivize more office space here or a particularly neighborhood if they could do a sliding tax break based on the unoccupied sq. footage of a tower in its first 5 years or something. If the tower fills up with small companies quickly, Boston is out nothing. This would have the ancillary benefit of lowering or stabilizing office rent growth throughout the market and could keep or attract more companies to Boston. I am not saying do this for here, but maybe for more difficult projects (air rights, SST, Sullivan Sq., Roxbury) that have outsized social benefits for the city.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That sounds like an amazing idea! I think that could be a very effective strategy.

Also, your map does not include all of the privately owned parking garages and surface parking that should be subject to serious review. Examples, Castle Square Garage (owned by Druker, definitely in the sights for development); Chinatown Gate Garage (on the Greenway!); 1000 Washington Garage....

Thanks for letting me know. I wasn't sure about most of those so I will update the map.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

SST, as a singular tall tower, is not happening.

Right. That's why I am placing my bet against it before betting against this project.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Ok this may start a bit of a tangent and apologies in advance, but Rifleman brings up a point on incentives and office space.

Several Winthrop proposals are residential only, as MT has shown luxury high rise can fly off downtown. However, Boston has very low office occupancy rates and extremely high rents.

However, there also seems to be few companies that could really take up a huge portion of a large tower to get a developer going. That seems like it will only be more difficult since even if it is a large company, they don't need as much room for things like servers and systems that will at one time ate up a lot of sq. ft. Today's offices can be pretty lean and mean. Combine it with Boston's increasingly start up eco-system, there are a lot of fast growing, fast moving but still small cos in need of space.

Even in a hot market, these factors (combined with high construction costs) have made the spec office market very limited here.

I do not support tax break giveaways, but I would wonder in this environment that if Boston wanted to incentivize more office space here or a particularly neighborhood if they could do a sliding tax break based on the unoccupied sq. footage of a tower in its first 5 years or something. If the tower fills up with small companies quickly, Boston is out nothing. This would have the ancillary benefit of lowering or stabilizing office rent growth throughout the market and could keep or attract more companies to Boston. I am not saying do this for here, but maybe for more difficult projects (air rights, SST, Sullivan Sq., Roxbury) that have outsized social benefits for the city.

There's defenitely demand for more offices, or at least in within the company I work for (State Street). Channel Center was filled up and 100% occupied within a month and we still lack the necessary space. They've been "densifying" the corporate headquaters by replacing cubicles with smaller desk space until they realize that couldn't put any more within the building without violating building codes on the amount of workers allowed in the building. I wouldn't be surprised if State Street rent out a couple of floors if this building gets built.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Can someone explain how a new radar at Logan would allow developers to build taller buildings downtown? I thought the reason for the height restrictions is safety related in the event that an engine blows on takeoff and the plane can't ascend quickly enough. How will a new radar resolve that safety concern? Or am I mistaken and the FAA height restrictions have nothing to do with an engine out ascent?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Can someone explain how a new radar at Logan would allow developers to build taller buildings downtown? I thought the reason for the height restrictions is safety related in the event that an engine blows on takeoff and the plane can't ascend quickly enough. How will a new radar resolve that safety concern? Or am I mistaken and the FAA height restrictions have nothing to do with an engine out ascent?

They do have to do with engine out ascent for the areas of the map directly on a flight path. Other areas (downtown) have stepped height restrictions because any higher would block the "sightlines" of the radar at logan to aircraft to the west.

If you built another radar to the west and integrated it with the logan system, you wouldn't have to worry about new buildings creating a blind spot for the radar.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Can someone explain how a new radar at Logan would allow developers to build taller buildings downtown? I thought the reason for the height restrictions is safety related in the event that an engine blows on takeoff and the plane can't ascend quickly enough. How will a new radar resolve that safety concern? Or am I mistaken and the FAA height restrictions have nothing to do with an engine out ascent?

Also, you're right about the one-engine-out being the initial height restriction. The radar issue is an additional, lower ceiling that was imposed on Chiofaro for the Harbor Garage site (and so far only on him, AFAIK - it's never come up for any other project). The 780' ceiling on the Winthrop Square site was imposed by the FAA due to one-engine-out, not radar.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Nobody pitchfork me... I have nothing new to contribute about this tower. Just a question regarding this quote from Data:

To expand upon the tweets, the City will transfer the garage to the BRA at no cost and then when the BRA sells the garage to a developer, the money will go to the City, not the BRA.

Since the Winthrop site is now a BRA property, a thought crossed my mind. I was scoping through the Summary of Incentives for the GE Headquarters and found this interesting quote at the bottom of the first page:
If the Company occupies any properties owned or leased by Boston Redevelopment Authroity, for a lease term of up to 20 years, the Company shall be responsible for only annual operating expenses, property taxes not abated or subject to a PILOT agreement, and interior renovation costs.

I know all the talk has been about GE going to the Seaport, but is there any possible way this site would be in consideration for the GE HQ?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I believe this is pretty standard language for BRA, MASSPORT, etc. tenants.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Nobody pitchfork me... I have nothing new to contribute about this tower. Just a question regarding this quote from Data:



Since the Winthrop site is now a BRA property, a thought crossed my mind. I was scoping through the Summary of Incentives for the GE Headquarters and found this interesting quote at the bottom of the first page:


I know all the talk has been about GE going to the Seaport, but is there any possible way this site would be in consideration for the GE HQ?

Anything is possible, but GE said that they want to be at the seaport's innovation district.
 

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