Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Circumstance and judgement have kept me way from this thread since the big reveal. (Probably just as well...)

A few thoughts:
  1. Accordia - Still my favorite. The green needs to go darker and richer, like a bottle of Ardbeg, or maybe Steve McQueen's Mustang in Bullitt. The treelike form of this scheme could use an air of brooding - think Columbia Center, Seattle's tallest.
  2. Millennium - Elegant details try to lessen the awkwardness of the form. This proposal could be done better elsewhere (i.e. the Back Bay Garage). The feathery public space is a riff on SOM's TransBay Proposal.
  3. Lend Lease - Warmed-over parametric wankery. De-fanged Thom Mayne or Herzog & De Meuron. Trust me, this will look dated before it's done.
  4. HYM - In short, this isn't worth waiting out the timescale. The coolest part of the proposal is the new church.
  5. Trans National - Not worth losing Rudolph's proto High Tech (not Brutalist) Blue Cross Building. In return, we're gifted two more background buildings for the price of one.
  6. Trinity - A proposal that appears to have been pre-value-engineered, for our ridicule and dismissal. I mean, are they kidding?

**Many thanks, datadyne, for organizing the proposals.
 
Last edited:
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^^ nice. i wonder if the BRA is as disappointed as we are that several of the proposals stink as badly as they do. i've been warming to Accordia. it works and it's safe.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^ Best takes yet, Beton Brut.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Accordia is far from a safe design based on the textures used in the terra cotta panels and the color as well. The overall silhouette is also not really a "safe" design. The safe design is Millennium Tower imo.

Also I would look to SHoP's use of terra cotta on 111 W 57th St to get an idea of how well they can use that material to create something beautiful.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Beton Brut said:
Circumstance and judgement have kept me way from this thread since the big reveal. (Probably just as well...)

A few thoughts:
  1. Accordia - Still my favorite. The green needs to go darker and richer, like a bottle of Ardbeg, or maybe Steve McQueen's Mustang in Bullitt. The treelike form of this scheme could use an air of brooding - think Columbia Center, Seattle's tallest.
  2. Millennium - Elegant details try to lessen the awkwardness of the form. This proposal could be done better elsewhere (i.e. the Back Bay Garage). The feathery public space is a riff on SOM's TransBay Proposal.
  3. Lend Lease - Warmed-over parametric wankery. De-fanged Thom Mayne or Herzog & De Meuron. Trust me, this will look dated before it's done.
  4. HYM - In short, this isn't worth waiting out the timescale. The coolest part of the proposal is the new church.
  5. Trans National - Not worth losing Rudolph's proto High Tech (not Brutalist) Blue Cross Building. In return, we're gifted two more background buildings for the price of one.
  6. Trinity - A proposal that appears to have been pre-value-engineered, for our ridicule and dismissal. I mean, are they kidding?
Click to expand...
Accodia is now my choice! (As long as they go Ardbeg green (and invite me to the opening where they serve naught but it)).
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I had Accordia as second best at first glance, but I've come around to thinking it's just as good and maybe better than Lend Lease. Millennium would be fine but I feel the other two are overall the most exciting proposals. The other three don't bring as much and have too many drawbacks. Accordia or Lend Lease for me.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Can someone with knowledge comment about how each of these development teams is politically? Who has worked with the BRA before, who's safest or most reliable, who has the financing that the people in charge of selection will like, etc.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Beton Brut said:
The green needs to go darker and richer, like a bottle of Ardbeg, or maybe Steve McQueen's Mustang in Bullitt.
Click to expand...

Will admit this is less jarring.

nxd9yqL.jpg
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

timsox6 said:
Can someone with knowledge comment about how each of these development teams is politically? Who has worked with the BRA before, who's safest or most reliable, who has the financing that the people in charge of selection will like, etc.
Click to expand...

Timsox -- Such historic information may not be as valuable as it appears on the surface

so here's the best guesses in some sort of hierarchy:

  • 1) Ah! the obvious -- Millennium Partners is well connected, has some strong local heritage and has an excellent track record -- BUT remember that their development track record was all achieved while working with Menino's BRA
  • 2) Similarly, HYM has scored-well recently with the major project at the Congress St. Garage -- but all that is in the future -- some of it far in the future after 115 Federal St. is finished -- balancing that is that there still is quite a bit of influence connected to the Catholic Church in Boston [Monseigneur Lalley once chaired the BRA]
  • 3) that would be TransNational -- once the possible Gem on Tommy's Crown -- but that was then -- still the ownership of the the "Dead Stump] next to the even more dead garage is worth something -- they do pay taxes on it

    [
  • 4) Trinity -- local company with track record of "sustainable" mostly small projects
  • 5) / 6) the two outsiders in no particular order Accordia
  • 6) /5) Lendlease
    in the old Boston these would have had no chance competing against the local boys -- this might be different today however

Note the forgoing had nothing to do with the designs -- just the BRA connections / track record -- not even considering the BRA's RFP requirements

Personally, because of the requirements the TransNastional moves up -- and if they do promise to tear down the Paul Rudolf stump -- I sing Hallelujah
 
Last edited:
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^^this.

5 +200m: Millennium + Twin Towers + 1 Bromfield + HYM would be kinda cool.

Mr. Galer's head would probably explode.
 
Last edited:
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

whighlander said:
Timsox -- Such historic information may not be as valuable as it appears on the surface

so here's the best guesses in some sort of hierarchy:

  • 1) Ah! the obvious -- Millennium Partners is well connected, has some strong local heritage and has an excellent track record -- BUT remember that their development track record was all achieved while working with Menino's BRA
  • 2) Boston Properties is well connected, locally based, and has had recent approvals of major projects in the current Mayor-BRA era
  • 3) Similarly, HYM has scored-well recently with the major project at the Congress St. Garage -- but all that is in the future -- some of it far in the future after 115 Federal St. is finished -- balancing that is that there still is quite a bit of influence connected to the Catholic Church in Boston [Monseigneur Lalley once chaired the BRA]
  • 4) that would be TransNational -- once the possible Gem on Tommy's Crown -- but that was then -- still the ownership of the the "Dead Stump] next to the even more dead garage is worth something -- they do pay taxes on it
  • 5) / 6) the two outsiders in no particular order Accordia
  • 6) /5) Lendlease
    in the old Boston these would have had no chance competing against the local boys -- this might be different today however

Note the forgoing had nothing to do with the designs -- just the BRA connections / track record -- not even considering the BRA's RFP requirements

Personally, because of the requirements the TransNastional moves up -- and if they do promise to tear down the Paul Rudolf stump -- I sing Hallelujah
Click to expand...

Is Boston Properties part of the God-awful Trinity proposal?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DZH22 said:
Is Boston Properties part of the God-awful Trinity proposal?
Click to expand...

DZH -- good catch

Boston Properties is not involved with Trinity -- so my list has/d an irrelevant element in it

Don't know enough about Trinity to put it in the list in a specific position


Updated the original list by moving Boston Properties out

in the Revised List I put Trinity ahead of Lendlease and Acordis -- just because Trinity is local
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

whighlander said:
DZH -- good catch

Boston Properties is not involved with Trinity -- so my list has an irrelevant element in it

Don't know enough about Trinity to put it in the list in a specific position

Revised list I put Trinity ahead of Lendlease and Acordis -- just because Trinity is local
Click to expand...

Trinity is well liked by the City for their affordable projects. But that is probably not what the City is looking for here. It is hard to do affordable and iconic together.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DZH22 said:
Is Boston Properties part of the God-awful Trinity proposal?
Click to expand...

Nope they are not.

Lead Developer is of course: Trinity Financial, Inc.

Hotel Developer/owner: GB Lodging, LLC.

Lead Architect: TAT (The Architectural Team)

Public Realm Planner: Street Works Studio

Sustainability Consultant: Steven Winter & Associates

Pre construction General Contractor Services: Gilbane

Other Consultants:
legal: Goulston & Storrs
Permitting: Fort Point Associates
Structural Engineering: LeMessurier
Environmental Engineering: McPhail Associates
Residential Broker: Sprogis and Neal Real Estate
Parking operator: VPNE
Parking Consultant: Dane & Company
Property Management: Trinity Management, LLC.
Community Partner: Youth Build Boston/Youth Build USA

Boston Properties has as far as I can tell no role in this nor any of the other proposals.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

citylover94 said:
Nope they are not.

Lead Developer is of course: Trinity Financial, Inc.

Hotel Developer/owner: GB Lodging, LLC.

Lead Architect: TAT (The Architectural Team)

Public Realm Planner: Street Works Studio

Sustainability Consultant: Steven Winter & Associates

Pre construction General Contractor Services: Gilbane

Other Consultants:
legal: Goulston & Storrs
Permitting: Fort Point Associates
Structural Engineering: LeMessurier
Environmental Engineering: McPhail Associates
Residential Broker: Sprogis and Neal Real Estate
Parking operator: VPNE
Parking Consultant: Dane & Company
Property Management: Trinity Management, LLC.
Community Partner: Youth Build Boston/Youth Build USA

Boston Properties has as far as I can tell no role in this nor any of the other proposals.
Click to expand...

City -- the association was in error -- mea culpa -- we all know that they are not part of the deal -- I fixed the offending list

However -- i didn't have much on Trinity -- this has been added to by others -- that is really is the issue now -- how much clout does Trinity possess?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

For some reason I don't see this getting built.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I had posted that and then saw that others had responded but I would think the lack of quality in Trinity's proposal will hurt them more than any connections they have may help them.

Also I think everyone missed that Lendlease proposal includes Hudson Group as a major part of their team and Hudson Group was the developer for the Radian. Plus Lendlease also had links to the development of the W Hotel, Clarendon, 33 Arch St., Intercontinental, and One Charles. Based on that they probably have some level of familiarity with the city.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

TheRifleman said:
For some reason I don't see this getting built.
Click to expand...

I hope you're wrong. With developments like The Pierce and Millennium tower doing so well i'm hopeful that the economics favorable for this development even if we face an economic downturn in the near future.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

citylover94 said:
I had posted that and then saw that others had responded but I would think the lack of quality in Trinity's proposal will hurt them more than any connections they have may help them.
Click to expand...

You (and others) are assuming that the only thing the BRA cares about is how pretty and polished the towers in these proposals look. A tower is a building and a building is a lot more than its skin. It's shaped by not only its form, but also who lives, works, plays, shops & dines in it. It's about what services the building provides and how its program contributes to the urban environment. Trinity's call for 40% affordable units cannot be ignored. The BRA will be evaluating form, yes, but will also be looking at what each proposal provides in terms of office, hotel, residential, retail & civic space. The developer's vision is what the BRA is evaluating in this RFP phase. The building's form can always be tweaked later to better accommodate the program that is asked for in the RFP & further requested by the BRA in the review phase.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

datadyne007 said:
You (and others) are assuming that the only thing the BRA cares about is how pretty and polished the towers in these proposals look. A tower is a building and a building is a lot more than its skin. It's shaped by not only its form, but also who lives, works, plays, shops & dines in it. It's about what services the building provides and how its program contributes to the urban environment. Trinity's call for 40% affordable units cannot be ignored. The BRA will be evaluating form, yes, but will also be looking at what each proposal provides in terms of office, hotel, residential, retail & civic space. The developer's vision is what the BRA is evaluating in this RFP phase. The building's form can always be tweaked later to better accommodate the program that is asked for in the RFP & further requested by the BRA in the review phase.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Trinity is the same group that brought us The Kensington. Can anybody else imagine a 725' Kensington being the winning proposal here? That would be the eyesore of the century.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top