Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Lisbon said:
Agreed that the Brutalist buildings you mention are more compelling than Rudolph's at 133 Fed. The "Y"-shaped pillars are my favorite part of the building because they remind me of the tridents at the base of Yamasaki's World Trade Center towers. Aside from the base, I'm not 133 Fed's biggest fan. I'm torn as to whether or not it deserves to be saved.
Click to expand...

Lisbon -- the supreme irony of that Yamasaki reference -- Yamasaki designed the old Eastern Airlines Terminal at Logan [circa 1970]

east2.png


-- it came down to make way for Terminal A

When you ask -- 2005 the new terminal opened -- I'm guessing the old one was taken down in 2003
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

i loved the old brick triangle where the Radian now stands. it was very sad to see that one go. i would have been pleased if it had been turned into another 226 Causeway/old Stop and Shop Bakery (where i used to slam pans in front of the 540° furnace, and nearly dropping dead in the process).

But not this 12 story box. It doesn't rise to that level. Okay, it's not as bad as the Old Travelers or Sheraton N and S towers, and the base looks like the old wtc.... well, the wtc wasn't pretty at the base. And neither is this. But, it's standing in the way of something that promises to become immensely great for the present and future of Boston. The parcel is far too important, and the show must go on. If Transnational is declared the winner, Boston will be far better off with this thing gone. And i didn't even call it a foul name.

City Hall, State Service Center, and Center Plaza are possible candidates for redevelopment in the next cycle/s.... But, with the 60's and 70's office towers, like the 1 Beacon, Preggo tower, Fed Reserve, McCormack Cube, Harbor Towers, Christian Science Park, Science Museum, Aquario and Harbor Garage, we'll continue to be rife with examples of this lousy if not utterly deluded era in Boston architecture for years to come.
 
Last edited:
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
But, it's standing in the way of something that promises to become immensely great for the present and future of Boston.
Click to expand...

Um, no it isn't. The garage parcel itself is more than an acre. That's plenty of room for something "immensely great for the present and future of Boston". Just ask Accordia or Lend Lease or any of the 5 firms that don't own 133 who are still clamoring to redevelop the garage. Transnational doesn't even sound totally sold on tearing this down.

And if you think that 133 has the same architectural worth as the Aquarium garage then you clearly don't understand architecture.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

JumboBuc said:
Transnational doesn't even sound totally sold on tearing this down.
Click to expand...

...understandably; 120,000 sq ft of space that ain't broke in the heart of one of America's top 5 cities....

http://www.city-data.com/boston-properties/F/Federal-Street-1.html

Occupancy type: Office : Class B+
Total assessed land value: $7,886,100 (it was $7,872,600 in 2009)
Total assessed building value: $11,447,900 (it was $17,023,900 in 2009)
Total assessed value for property: $19,334,000 (it was $24,896,500 in 2009)
Parcel's total lotsize: 20,157 square feet
Year property was built: 1959
Year property was last remodeled: 2005
Gross floor area of property: 130,000 square feet
Living area of property: 120,000 square feet
Number of levels in a structure: 12
Structural classification: Reinforced Concrete
Assessment for tax year: 2014
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I am not even a fan of that style of architecture but I would prefer this be preserved as a good and respectful example of Brutalist architecture in Boston. It is one of the only Brutalist buildings in/around downtown aside from 10-24 School Street that even has the potential for good ground level activation. Plus not every buildings needs to be a skyscraper a mix of heights and styles is important even in the center of Manhattan there is a mix of building heights and styles.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

citylover94 said:
It is one of the only Brutalist buildings in/around downtown aside from 10-24 School Street that even has the potential for good ground level activation.
Click to expand...

70 Federal St.'s Fidelity retail branch doesn't constitute "good ground-level activation"? Not everything has to be trendy or hip or whatever. That's a very inviting, friendly-looking brokerage branch I've used in the past for my retirement accounts. It's wonderfully easy to tell what it is from the street and the rotating stock ticker billboard is wonderfully alluring along with of course being informative. Heck, I can't think of better ground-level activation than that.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

odurandina said:
...understandably; 120,000 sq ft of space that ain't broke in the heart of one of America's top 5 cities....

http://www.city-data.com/boston-properties/F/Federal-Street-1.html

Occupancy type: Office : Class B+
Total assessed land value: $7,886,100 (it was $7,872,600 in 2009)
Total assessed building value: $11,447,900 (it was $17,023,900 in 2009)
Total assessed value for property: $19,334,000 (it was $24,896,500 in 2009)
Parcel's total lotsize: 20,157 square feet
Year property was built: 1959
Year property was last remodeled: 2005
Gross floor area of property: 130,000 square feet
Living area of property: 120,000 square feet
Number of levels in a structure: 12
Structural classification: Reinforced Concrete
Assessment for tax year: 2014
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to be chiding you on such a petty thing like this, seriously I am. But, in the future, just quote from/hypertext link-thru directly to the City's Assessing page for any one property. By definition it's the authoritative source for quoting this stuff. It's also a much easier display to quickly scan than try to wade through all of that stuff you copied-and-pasted above, some of which very well may have been garbled or mistranscribed by who knows who.

Here, try it with 133 Federal St., since it's the example in question:

https://www.cityofboston.gov/assessing/search/?
pid=0304206000

See how easy that was? Much better.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DBM said:
70 Federal St.'s Fidelity retail branch doesn't constitute "good ground-level activation"? Not everything has to be trendy or hip or whatever. That's a very inviting, friendly-looking brokerage branch I've used in the past for my retirement accounts. It's wonderfully easy to tell what it is from the street and the rotating stock ticker billboard is wonderfully alluring along with of course being informative. Heck, I can't think of better ground-level activation than that.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction I don't live in the city or have an encyclopedic knowledge of every brutalist building downtown and I would agree that one has good activation as well.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

DBM said:
I'm sorry to be chiding you on such a petty thing like this, seriously I am. But, in the future, just quote from/hypertext link-thru directly to the City's Assessing page for any one property...

See how easy that was? Much better.
Click to expand...

Yes, clearly.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

After continuously viewing each of the proposals, I really came around to the Accordia proposal most. I now like it more than their original proposal. I don't think it's going to be green as the closeups at the base clearly aren't.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

type001 said:
After continuously viewing each of the proposals, I really came around to the Accordia proposal most. I now like it more than their original proposal. I don't think it's going to be green as the closeups at the base clearly aren't.
Click to expand...

100% agree.

Although I still really love MP's "great hall" and HYM's tower placement.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I would be equally happy with either Lendlease or Accordia but I actually feel that Accordia has a better chance of selection than Lendlease.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Do people think that accoridia's "cultural pavilion" looks too similar with Boston Properties glass enclosure on congress st?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I am all for Lendlease, it is a radically different direction for the City of Boston. I think that it is time to leave the land of brick (I love brick, butttt) and join the world in creating this tall works of art.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

AGREED. I'm all about Lendlease.

Is it naive/futile to think that if the general public voiced their strong support for Lendlease, the BRA would be more likely to accept that proposal? Like, even something as simple as calling them a lot and emailing?
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

dotdude78 said:
AGREED. I'm all about Lendlease.

Is it naive/futile to think that if the general public voiced their strong support for Lendlease, the BRA would be more likely to accept that proposal? Like, even something as simple as calling them a lot and emailing?
Click to expand...

Emailing such entities does work. Don't spam, tell them what you like rather than what you dislike. The less like a nimby complaint it looks at first glance the more likely it is to get forwarded up the chain of command.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

dotdude78 said:
Is it naive/futile to think that if the general public voiced their strong support for Lendlease, the BRA would be more likely to accept that proposal?
Click to expand...

I think it's more naïve/futile to think that the general public is in unanimous agreement regarding which proposal to pick, or even in majority agreement.

I probably like Accordia as much as I like Lendlease, even with the (garish?) green color. I'd also be relatively happy with Millennium or HYM.

If you want to make your voice heard, by all means do so. Just don't assume that everybody else automatically agrees with you.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

datadyne007 said:
The BRA wants public comments on the RFP responses.

You must use the form at the bottom of this page to submit them:

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthority.org/work-with-the-bra/rfps-rfqs-bids/rfp-listing-page?id=78

Annoying the BRA (who would you even call?) with phone calls and e-mails will not get you anywhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the head's up - I just posted the following:

"Concerning the Lendlease proposal specifically, I'm curious why the proponent twists the building so that the lighted crown (the LED "bird's nest") faces north? The view from Boston Harbor is presented during daylight on page 2.4 , and would (I believe) feature a half-unlit building on the left side at night. The "signature" view of the crown would be directed at City Hall Plaza and the Greenway and would presumably be blocked by other buildings.

The slab-sided proposals (HYM and Millennium) choose to face their slabs toward Boston Common, the Back Bay, and the harbor, while the (far more attractive) narrow faces would be prominent from less striking angles (the SE Expressway, for instance). While I understand that residents would likely prefer to look OUT at the more picturesque areas, Lendlease is a spire and wouldn't seem to share that motivation.

Has the Lendlease design team considered rotating the building to face the LED crown toward the Harbor or the Charles River Basin?"
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The BRA had specific requirements laid out, but, it does desire an iconic building. No way around it, architecture is a beauty contest partly (mostly?) to many people.
My pennies:

Lend Lease - Web weaving on the facade, Spider-Man, anyone? Clunky bottom appurtenances sticking out.
Trans National - Twin Towers, been done before, a bad memory
HYM - Awkward misfit, doesn't seem to know what it wants to be
Trinity - Please, blocky, overbearing, so yesterday
Accordia - Contextual, fits in with its band of brothers in the financial district, but, terra cotta panels and multiple terraces distinguishes it. Facade won't be THAT green.
Millennium - Pleats give it a soaring effect, streaks of flight, although would like to see them vary in length above office section, cuts at top a clever way to top a skyscraper. Atrium dramatic, hint of deceased Penn Station.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top