Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[type001]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

That's old news Data. What have you done for us lately?

Thanks BLDUP!

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

It looks like HYM scheduled completion is a few years behind the other proposals since they are moving the church before they start construction on the tower. HYM will not break ground on the tower until Q2 2020 and finish Q4 2023. The other proposals seems to wrap up construction by 2020/2021.

Does that stretched out schedule hurt their proposal because that is a few years less of tax revenues and also increase risks for not being built because of a turn down in the market?

The economy is a lock to be somewhere between good and ungood... or worse if anything like what doomers like Jim Davidson envision is possible.

Lendlease build it yesterday YOU WIN and THANK YOU!!...

And 432 Park ruined the skyline...

Couldn't agree more. When anyone draws any tall building in Boston, the ~825-925' foot spires look good/great imo.

Anything taller, meh.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I respectfully disagree, and I am posting this as I leave a 3 day trip from NYC now. When viewing things in person, not much of what has gone up recently in NYC looks iconic. Most of the new buildings look cool (not game changing though), but definitely not iconic.

And 432 Park ruined the skyline, as many tour guides and residents have confirmed over the last year. Actually 432 Park and One57 are inescable from within the entire bottom half of the park, and I don't like it. And after 3 days straight of looking at the NYC "icons", as is typical with me, I yearn to get home to Boston.

I don't mean this at all to be another city vs city argument, because they are both incomparable yet champion in their own respects. My point is that what these developers proposed things that will work well with our city, and they look fine in any US or European city. Trinity may be the weakest aesthetically, but that is a damn respectable proposal overall.

Lastly, there is no such thing as icons popping everywhere in a city. That's a paradoxical statement, but I see what you mean.

Im not just talking about what has been build already although I like Beekman Place, 30 park...etc. I'm talking about under construction. Tower Verre, 340 flatbush, 111 w 57th st., one vanderbuilt, 3 hudson blvd, one manhattan west.... Tower Verre in my own opinion is the one tower in history that should have not been shortened but I still believe this may become the most iconic skyscraper ever built in its height class. 111 w 57th is incredible also. Tower Verre though....... Thats going to really be something, and probably my favorite tower of all time when complete. I cant even imagine how you can improve on that design other than more height.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I forgot to ask also... So if HYM is proposing building on another site completely. What is stopping that parcel being developed along with the Winthrop garage? Is there a possibility both of these get towers one day?

 

[datadyne007]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I forgot to ask also... So if HYM is proposing building on another site completely. What is stopping that parcel being developed along with the Winthrop garage? Is there a possibility both of these get towers one day?

HYM has partnered with the Shrine/friary they are proposing to replace/develop on. And no, the whole reason they are building the tower on the Shrine parcel is because they feel that it is a more appropriate spot for a tower and that the Winthrop Sq site should embrace the historic Square in scale & public amenity. The Friars will only support developing on the Shrine if it is replaced. HYM is the only company to offer them this.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Alright thanks. So in theory if the BRA picks the winthrop site and one day HYM decides they want to develop the parcel and move the shrine somewhere else we could still get both.

 

[393b40]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

HYM owns the Shrine/friary they are proposing to replace/develop on.

Does HYM actually own the property? I'm under the impression it's a land swap agreement.

 

[rinserepeat]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The economy is a lock to be somewhere between good and ungood... or worse if anything like what doomers like Jim Daidson envision is possible.

If the next downturn is anything like the last, urban core residential is going to be mostly immune. They might have issues financing and the scale may change if things go south, but if we're thinking long term, I'd personally prefer the proposal with the best urban design.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Im not just talking about what has been build already although I like Beekman Place, 30 park...etc. I'm talking about under construction. Tower Verre, 340 flatbush, 111 w 57th st., one vanderbuilt, 3 hudson blvd, one manhattan west.... Tower Verre in my own opinion is the one tower in history that should have not been shortened but I still believe this may become the most iconic skyscraper ever built in its height class. 111 w 57th is incredible also. Tower Verre though....... Thats going to really be something, and probably my favorite tower of all time when complete. I cant even imagine how you can improve on that design other than more height.

These are all supertalls. Would they still be iconic designs if you chopped them down to 725'? I don't think they would work at that height. Unless somebody addresses the radar situation, this cap is what we are stuck with.

This is why you should direct more of your anger towards, say, Boston Properties. They own 2 parcels that could actually support a building closer to this caliber, but are blowing their (and Boston's) opportunity to do so. Also, I realize that North Station is "way off to the side", but so is the Pru. Nobody has accused that tower of being out of place. (at least not in my lifetime)

Also, as an aside, the Tower Verre shortening pisses me off as much as any building revision ever has. At the time it would have been the only building rivaling the Empire State Building. One lady forced them to chop off 200'. ONE! Yet somehow they needed to "keep the design the same." So out of one side of her mouth it's a great design, and out of the other it needed to cut down so as not to be an eyesore and distract from ESB. Then, next thing you know, there are a bunch of even TALLER ones slated to be built in midtown, yet TV is still stuck at 1050'. Horrible decision, and even worse that they didn't reverse it down the road. TV will be one of the greatest towers of all time, but will also be mostly lost in the shuffle and barely make a dent on Midtown. Tragic.

 

[DBM]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Does HYM actually own the property? I'm under the impression it's a land swap agreement.

Yeah, HYM most certainly does NOT own St. Anthony Shrine and is instead in a land-swap agreement as you say.

Legally speaking, I don't possibly see how a for-profit commercial developer could own a parcel that operated for decades as a tax-exempt religious/social services institution. That would be a major potential scandal that City Assessing would move to ruthlessly eliminate, wouldn't it?

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

It's not Boston but they Look Great in the SKYLINE if built like this.

 

[FK4]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Or you can just see the proposals here that I pulled & organized...

Ha. Right on.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Ha. Right on.

There are a lot of solid contributors here, but at the end of the day I'd say Datadyne is Archboston's MVP. (most valuable poster)

 

[dwash59]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Yeah, HYM most certainly does NOT own St. Anthony Shrine and is instead in a land-swap agreement as you say.

Legally speaking, I don't possibly see how a for-profit commercial developer could own a parcel that operated for decades as a tax-exempt religious/social services institution. That would be a major potential scandal that City Assessing would move to ruthlessly eliminate, wouldn't it?

The city shows the owner as "Order of Friars Minor Province of the Most Holy Name", so I'm going with HYM not owning it.

 

[odurandina]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The economy is a lock to be somewhere between good and ungood... or worse if anything like what doomers like Jim Davidson envision is possible.

James Davidson typo fixed.

If the next downturn is anything like the last, urban core residential is going to be mostly immune. They might have issues financing and the scale may change if things go south, but if we're thinking long term, I'd personally prefer the proposal with the best urban design.

i concur. Boston Strong!!

WHY ARE YOU GREEN?!

Tower looks great from that angle. Green is kinda odd. I doubt the BCDC will embrace a green tinted skyscraper. This design stands a great chance of winning.

Trinity - Ummm it's the Avalon North Station stacked on top of Tremont on the Common but at least it's not too offensive looking?

Trinity sucks...looks like a double height Kensington.

i was thinking more like two 45 Worthington's stacked on each other. Shockingly ugly design not even worthy of Pittsburgh. Okay maybe Pittsburgh. But, it's not a contender; and then there were five.

1. Lendlease fix the lower level. Bring the cranes.
2. Accordia; Green no. Not even Porsche Ice Green. http://flatsixes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/porsche-turbos-ice-mist.jpg
3. Trans National; maybe if FAA limit on one and +700' on the other.
4. HYM; not waiting until hell freezes over for ugly faux iconic.
5. Millennium God no.

 

[lapradetom]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

James Davidson typo fixed.



i concur. Boston Strong!!



Tower looks great from that angle. Green is kinda odd. I doubt the BCDC will embrace a green tinted skyscraper. This design stands a great chance of winning.





i was thinking more like two 45 Worthington's stacked on each other. Shockingly ugly design not even worth of Pittsburgh. Okay maybe Pittsburgh. But, it's not a contender; and then there were five.

1. Lendlease fix the lower level. Bring the cranes.
2. Accordia; Green no. Not even Porsche Ice Green.
3. Trans National; maybe if FAA limit on one and +700' on the other.
4. HYM; not waiting until hell freezes over for ugly faux iconic.
5. Millennium God no.

^^^Trinity didn't even get a dishonorable mention.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The city shows the owner as "Order of Friars Minor Province of the Most Holy Name", so I'm going with HYM not owning it.

DWash -- i think that the principles of HYM are just good friends with the Church in general and the St. Anthony's Shrine Church in particular

-- i doubt that any of the others would have the street cred to pull off the deal

Similarly though different is the situation with Belkin and TransNational they do own the adjacent property at 133 Federal St

I think that the ownership of the 133 building gives TransNational the lead position in the evaluation of the proposals against the RFP

 

[citylover94]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

But they don't really use that connection in a meaningful way there is no aspect of their proposal that couldn't be replicated by another developer except for the one or two story connection to 133 federal street that Transnational does. I just don't see it giving him that much of a boost if any at all.

 

[riffgo]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The sheer size of the proposal could give hom an edge.

 

[dwash59]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

But they don't really use that connection in a meaningful way there is no aspect of their proposal that couldn't be replicated by another developer except for the one or two story connection to 133 federal street that Transnational does. I just don't see it giving him that much of a boost if any at all.

??? Their proposal calls for demolishing 133 Federal Street; it is a major part of the site for Phase 2 of construction.