Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[393b40]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Accordia looks great. Love the massing and the green. Not sure what you people are smoking. We need more interesting colors in the city. So tired of blue/black/silver and brick red everywhere.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

How do you share images from the proposals on here?

The view of the accordia tower from Dewey Square looks really cool, and I don't think that particular render has been shown here.

After looking over the big post on the last page with all the renders, I think I might personally be in love with HYM's base. I'd definitely walk around there.

Depends if its in a pdf u have to print screen or on a mac hold command shift 4 and select the pic then upload it to photobucket.

Hate to post an unpopular opinion as my second ever post, but:

To me, the Lendlease proposal looks gimmicky. The random ribbing looks like an afterthought, used to spice up a perfectly fine, but not outstanding massing. I think the similar design of the Bird's nest in Beijing works because the exterior steel beams are placed more densely and they are free standing, defining the entire facade.

I think the Millenium proposal is the strongest, and best fit contextually. If they wanted to transform it into an "iconic" tower, I think a curved top similar to the one SOM designed in Jakarta, albeit a less dramatic curve, would look very good here.

Ill stand with u on part of this. The Lendlease is literally just one of the 5,000 towers going up in china that look exactly like this. It looks good, but this is Boston and an extremely common anywhere in China tower doesnt do a ton for me. It does look good though. I posted the other image they had without the birds nest and I think that would go well in Boston because the massing is good- although it looks like a huge dong. I don't agree about the crown, but that is just my opinion and your not right or wrong its just how I feel about it.

Millennium reminds me of one 57 in NYC when looking up at it from ground level, just a shorter and fatter version of it.

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Accordia looks great. Love the massing and the green. Not sure what you people are smoking. We need more interesting colors in the city. So tired of blue/black/silver and brick red everywhere.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Is Millennium too tall? All of the other proposals are 725' to the very top. Millennium seems to be a good 750', maybe slightly more. However, unlike most of Boston's zoning, this site's height is strictly dictated by the FAA.

 

[Boston02124]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The Landlease tower needs a 111 Huntington esque spire. That would make it look much more like a beautiful penis. A bubble shaped lobby on both sides of the base would really help to give Boston it's much deserved manhood. The current street level interaction with the Landlease proposal sucks anyway.

they should move this to the top

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

U could even do a double facade like Shanghai Tower but make it out of latex.

 

[tysmith95]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

U could even do a double facade like Shanghai Tower but make it out of latex.

Nah no latex/double facade. I want baby towers to sprout from this masterpiece.

 

[FK4]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Thank God someone said it. When I first saw it I thought, "Boy that's a veiny co... Oh, it's a tower." Thought I had a problem until FK chimed in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzuvQXDUybE

Fantastic video reference. Havent seen it since it was in theaters.

 

[FK4]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Despite it being an unpopular choice now, I still like the new Accordia proposal. I think the massing is really cool, but I do agree that the green is really weird. If they could subdue how green it is, I'd like it a lot more.

With that said, Lendlease looks the best...any chance they can build that, and have HYM build their proposal on St. Anthony's Shrine? Please??

Looking at the rest of the pics, Accordia looks pretty good, too - it's just in the far-off pics that it looks absurdly, cartoonishly green.

 

[citylover94]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

In real life I doubt the color would look that vibrant most of the time so I doubt that would really be an issue.

 

[tobyjug]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If Obama likes Lendlease so do I. (page 2 of their PDF)

A lot of Yogic Flying happening there!

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

All of these proposals look pretty good - Trinity is the weakest looking, imo.

I like Landlease, HYM and TransNational the best.

Mass -- here's my order of desirability with some justifications -- all have some merit and all are better than the original submissions by quite a bit:

• 1. I think that TransNational has the most innovative concept in the two residential towers sprouting from the Office Podium -- of course they have a somewhat unfair advantage in having the adjacent building to knock down for an expanded footprint
  
• 2. HYM is also innovative in that they have the deal with the St. Anthony's to move the tower to Arch St and then build low and open up the garage site. Unfortunately their tower is all residential
  
• 3. Millennium has the spectacular Great Hall but is otherwise mundane although they now have a Platinum Track record developing in Boston
  
• 4. Lendlease I find as having too too much of recapitulating "the customers own words / BS meaningless feel good phases" -- but the concept is not bad with a lot of novelty at the ground level and by far the most innovative shape and surface look
  
• 5. Accordia -- I like the roof level Observation Deck -- the old JHT observation deck used to be my favorite place to introduce someone to Boston -- too bad the who building is residential
  
• 6. Trinity -- worse than Lendlease in the meaningless psychobabble and such though they do include a significant component of "affordable housing"
  

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Trans National has two boring towers for the price of one boring tower, and keeps selling the combined site without actually doing anything with it. It actually hurts them in this round because the other proposals have pass-throughs, multiple footprints, and public spaces on the ground floor, while they've closed it all up. Also, the exterior of the ground-level looks like it belongs in Waltham.

Equilib -- apparently you only looked at their pictures and missed some of the text -- they make a very significant point about the "HUGE" column-free Floorplates of the office Podium approaching an open acre per floor -- typically only found in Waltham or perhaps Burlington

They have by far the best idea for a "Mixed use" 24x7 facility in that people could literally work and live in the building

 

[stick n move]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The first round were RFI (Request for Interest) responses. These are RFP (Request for Proposal) responses, marking the second phase. All developers really had to do in the RFI phase was just submit a small narrative of their interest/what they think they could build there (and those who did only this got undeservedly trashed for this on this board). Instead many went ham on renders, hiring architects and such. This RFP phase is the correct phase to be producing plans & renders. Though, what they're proposing in these RFPs probably won't get built as they currently stand anyway.
:

100% accurate. I am guilty of this with many others. You just see Accordia "go ham on renders" and then someone else shows up with a napkin saying build tower here with an arrow and its hard to take them serious. Its true though they really did not have to pull out all of the stops at the time and were undeservedly bashed. That is true along with it being almost guaranteed that none of these would be built as proposed here. There is still plenty of time from now until this tower goes up if it ever does and who knows what were gonna get. At least theres a bunch of renders to keep the wolves occupied until whatever happens happens.

 

[DZH22]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Had a chance to browse through the submissions. A few observations:

I'm not sure why people don't think Lendlease is a serious proposal. It had the largest submission (by pages, by far) of all 6 proposals! The observation deck sitting at 400' is one of the dumbest things I have seen, anywhere.

Trinity is by the same people who brought us the Kensington, and are building a skyscraper in NYC that many people on skyscrapercity/page consider to be the city's worst building in decades! My gut reaction says: Anybody but Trinity!!! http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1661128&page=17

Accordia could be cool. I always thought a big part of what makes the Boston skyline interesting is its variety of colors and materials. I'd rather have green (along with the copper/whatever at 1 Bromfield) than keep building blue glass. Remember the ORIGINAL stand-in render for this?



Millennium and HYM are the only 2 that appear to top 725'. Millennium is closer to 750', and HYM more like 735'-740'. I believe only HYM could make that work, being in a slightly different site. I think Millennium would be forced to cut down by the FAA.

Transnational appears to be the only proposal that does NOT make it to the full 725'. I have it rated second to last aesthetically as well, only ahead of Trinity. (yuck!!!)

End of the day, I think 4 out of 6 proposals would give this area the icon that the BRA is shooting for.

However, again, I don't understand why the BRA is so adamant about building iconic on a 725' FAA capped site, but gives a pass to BP while they underwhelm on 2 prime locations that can go 900'+!!!!!!!!!

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Had a chance to browse through the submissions. A few observations:

Transnational appears to be the only proposal that does NOT make it to the full 725'. I have it rated second to last aesthetically as well, only ahead of Trinity. (yuck!!!)

End of the day, I think 4 out of 6 proposals would give this area the icon that the BRA is shooting for.

However, again, I don't understand why the BRA is so adamant about building iconic on a 725' FAA capped site, but gives a pass to BP while they underwhelm on 2 prime locations that can go 900'+!!!!!!!!!

DZH -- I think you missed three key elements of what BRA's RFP called for:

• 1) is the location in the heart of the city and it needing to be Tall to peak the skyline in the right place -- hence no need for an out of place 300m at NStation
• 2) the multi use blending of the DTX with the Financial District -- hence the need to have serious mixing of retail, residential and importantly office functions -- not just a smidgen of office
• 3) some seriously iconic public function or public function space

When you combine these RFP Requirements -- TransNational is a the top of the compliance list with the RFP with its 500,000 sq ft of very versatile, very open floor plate office [some of which could be retail / restaurants] along with the 1.4 million sq ft of multi-type residential. and " Entrepreneurship Innovation Center will feature an Innovation Sculpture Park and an Innovators Walk of Fame as well as sponsoring a live speaker series "

all score quite well [roughly in order]:

• Lendlease with the WeWork flexible office space for start-ups / move-ins-- e.g. GE Current is in WeWork @ 745 Atlantic Ave across from South station
• HYM with its downtown Boston Public School as well as new St. Anthony's and the open space
• Trinity -- a number of interesting elements including "11,000-square-foot indoor/outdoor public park on the 18th floor and an 11,000-square-foot public observation deck and a premier restaurant, lounge, and bar on the 52nd floor....40 percent of all residential units would be affordable to middle-income households.....a two-story public passageway from Winthrop Square to Federal Street... flanked with a black box theater, beer garden and a two-level restaurant."
• Millennium with the Great Hall -- "14,620-square-foot startup accelerator to be developed in partnership with the city" -- but no other office space
• Accordia with its Big Observation Deck & Big "Almost the Top of the Hub" Restaurant -- but all residential

However -- The real outlier on the RFP is HYM with the swap with St. Anthony's Shrine -- moving the tower to a better location and opening up the space currently occupied by the garage and otherwise to be occupied by a tower

No Offence -- But based on the RFP -- I don't think that the form or surface of the building itself will be a major determinant of the eventual winner

Ideally -- it would be a mix and match of elements from all the proposals -- such as

Add Millennium's Great Hall and the Hall of Innovation, perhaps on the site of TransNationals other lot

do the swap with St. Anthony's and put an observation deck and restaurant on top of HYM's tower with an office podium incorporating Wework or some other start-up friendly office space

and make it just a bit over the 725 -- say 800 ft by "buying off the FAA" with a new radar for Logan Approach -- the real reason for the height limit -- its not the 1-engine go-around as such a situation would face a wall at 600 ft along the boundary of the Financial District before a plane could climb to interfere with a 725 or even 800 ft building just beyond

 

[boston85]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

It looks like HYM scheduled completion is a few years behind the other proposals since they are moving the church before they start construction on the tower. HYM will not break ground on the tower until Q2 2020 and finish Q4 2023. The other proposals seems to wrap up construction by 2020/2021.

Does that stretched out schedule hurt their proposal because that is a few years less of tax revenues and also increase risks for not being built because of a turn down in the market?

 

[bayvillagebrahmin]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Is Millennium too tall? All of the other proposals are 725' to the very top. Millennium seems to be a good 750', maybe slightly more. However, unlike most of Boston's zoning, this site's height is strictly dictated by the FAA.

Accordia is definitely at least 750' look at their diagram comparing to Millennium.

 

[budman3]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'm throwing my hat into the ring for Accordia, though I was originally smitten with Lendlease.

I don't think the ground level is the best, but it's perfectly contextual and maintains the existing layout of the Winthrop Square park. I don't like Lendlease's approach here at all -- I may be biased because I worked in One Winthrop for years, but that plaza, though teaming with crustpunks and bike messengers, is a beautiful little pocket.

The tower portion is very dynamic. It narrowly avoids looking like a clusterfuck of ideas and gimmicks -- narrowly -- and I'm a very big fan of the color choice.

I'd be perfectly happy with Lendlease, but it doesn't read as original or "Boston" to me (even though I think the whole goal here is to find something that, for the love of God, ISN'T traditional Boston). The crisscrossing exterior is nonsensical and veers toward tacky, while the skin on Accordia is intricate and artful. I agree with above posts, too, that one of the most interesting things about the downtown skyline is the diversity of materials/colors, so some green to contrast the bright-blue Millenium and copper One Bromfield sounds fantastic too me.

I just had my coffee, so my platitudes may be a bit exaggerated. I just think this tower is unlike anything in the pipeline for Boston and isn't nearly as cloying as Lendlease.

 

[whighlander]

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I'm throwing my hat into the ring for Accordia, though I was originally smitten with Lendlease.

I don't think the ground level is the best, but it's perfectly contextual and maintains the existing layout of the Winthrop Square park. I don't like Lendlease's approach here at all -- I may be biased because I worked in One Winthrop for years, but that plaza, though teaming with crustpunks and bike messengers, is a beautiful little pocket.

The tower portion is very dynamic. It narrowly avoids looking like a clusterfuck of ideas and gimmicks -- narrowly -- and I'm a very big fan of the color choice.

I'd be perfectly happy with Lendlease, but it doesn't read as original or "Boston" to me (even though I think the whole goal here is to find something that, for the love of God, ISN'T traditional Boston). The crisscrossing exterior is nonsensical and veers toward tacky, while the skin on Accordia is intricate and artful. I agree with above posts, too, that one of the most interesting things about the downtown skyline is the diversity of materials/colors, so some green to contrast the bright-blue Millennium and copper One Bromfield sounds fantastic too me.

I just had my coffee, so my platitudes may be a bit exaggerated. I just think this tower is unlike anything in the pipeline for Boston and isn't nearly as cloying as Lendlease.

Budman -- Acordia loses on the RFP compliance because its all residential -- essentially its transplanting the Four Seasons from the Back Bay and calling the hotel "les Miserables" or some such

The RFP clearly wants mixed use -- which means significant office and retail as well as residential -- essentially a neighborhood in a building