Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stick n move said:
If 1 Bromfield gets built there will be a trio of towers instead of just 1 or 2 so it will be more about the collective presence than the individual.
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Don't forget SST. It will be in close proximity and is essentially another Millennium Tower. So it will be 4 new large buildings, creating a new downtown plateau on steroids. Throw in Pelli's office tower and there will be a lot of new, tall buildings competing for attention.

Also, the boom will inject some skyline-steroids into the Back Bay and everywhere else, and will really start to show over the next few years. If things can hold up, Boston will look massive. There is the potential for basically 7 Millennium sized towers. This is just 1 piece of that puzzle!
(1 Dalton, 111 Fed, 1 Bromfield, Millennium Tower, South Station Tower, Copley Square Tower, Pelli's Office Tower)

Next time you look at Millennium, remember, 6 more on the way.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

^^Or just deliver the knockout blow...
The potential for an absolutely insane Downtown Crossing is real! :)

1. Millennium
2. 1 Bromfield
3. Accordia
4. St. Anthony's Tower (HYM) in a few years.

or

1. Millennium
2. 1 Bromfield
3. 111 Fed Tower 1
4. 111 Fed Tower 2

or seriously gtfo

1. Millennium
2. 1 Bromfield
3. 111 Fed Tower 1
4. 111 Fed Tower 2
5. St. Anthony Tower (HYM) in a few years.

w/ SST going up nearby.

HYM's St Anthony's Shrine propuesto + 111 Fed single or twin towers can all exist together in perpetuity. Build the Friars new home inside an additional skyscraper.
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Just visited the open house tonight. Very slick displays from the developers.

Of note: I spent a good amount of time talking to the Accordia team about their proposed facade system. They are going for LEED Platinum with this proposal, and their facade is designed to help achieve that (less glass). That greenish color we are seeing is actually from glazed ceramic tiles. The tiles have an arched profile. The glaze is much less "green" than it appears in the renders - my guess is that the rendering struggles to replicate the unique sheen of the glazing...it is a semi-metallic-ish, deep green that is much less bright green from most angles - but my guess is it will glow greenish as the sun hits it. Overall I really liked the tile material. The facade consists of 3 (or so) vertically-oriented courses of the tiles in between the windows - and these vertical channels of tile run the height of the building.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Never forget.

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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Meh, I think I like the new one more now.

I have to say, Millennium is growing on me. That is my new second behind Accordia.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Me too because of the public space and the tower is good enough. I don't want it to be like so many other towers where it gets built and then unless you are a millionaire it essentially does nothing for the residents. Accordia didn't really market their lobby as a "hall" but if they would allow events inside of there its even more dramatic than Millennium. They're both great and if Accordia would use this space for markets, speeches, shows, etc that along with the indoor/outdoor observation deck is an instantaneous icon. I don't care if you don't love the tower itself, having these two aspects brings the people into the tower to interact with it and that leaves a mark on people. Especially the exclusivity of the only indoor/outdoor observation at that height above the rest of downtown.

These will become Boston. This will be like how you absolutely have to go to the sears tower observation deck in Chicago and the ESB/Rock in NY. This will be one of the first stops on everyones list when they come to the city and it will be great for locals, I know Ill go up there the week it is built. On top of that if they allow the lobby to be used for events, this would almost be the perfect development. You cant ask for much more than this to be given back to the people in a residential highrise. The setbacks are also a universally accepted trait of iconic American architecture.

This is great public space if I have ever seen it. I also always liked the Rockefeller observation deck more than the ESB because it feels more like an outdoor deck than a catwalk. This looks more like the Rock IMO. Obviously nothing will please everybody and in my opinion I would rather see the facade not curve and only step back instead of the instance with a few overhangs, but overall the massing is very good.

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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

type001 said:
Meh, I think I like the new one more now.

I have to say, Millennium is growing on me. That is my new second behind Accordia.
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Millennium had a Samsung Gear VR headset that people could put on and look around a render of The Great Hall in 360 degrees. Really cool. Was a big hit among young and old.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

The green ceramic tiles create the sort of wave effect up the tower. Pretty cool. Each tile rotates slightly as it goes up the facade. Then half way up they start to rotate the opposite direction. This is pretty intricate.

 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

stick n move said:
The green ceramic tiles create the sort of wave effect up the tower. Pretty cool. Each tile rotates slightly as it goes up the facade. Then half way up they start to rotate the opposite direction. This is pretty intricate.

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This looks very cool, but also very costly to construct.

What do you think the odds are this this would get VE'd out of the final design.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

JeffDowntown said:
This looks very cool, but also very costly to construct.

What do you think the odds are this this would get VE'd out of the final design.
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They claim it is part of the energy efficiency scheme of the building, and thus is not purely cosmetic. I think it has a shot of making it to the final design, though you never know. I think it's a refreshingly different use of materials compared to what we're seeing all around us right now.

(plus, the tiles are really cool - they had samples at Monday's open house).
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

This is the evolution of the modern facade right in front of our eyes. For a while they were stuck on glass boxes, Boston did not have that many but its starting to catch up now. At first it was enough to make a plain box out of glass. Then they started adding cuts and building different shapes. Then it evolved into a mixture of different colored glass panels or different materials, and spires or crowns. What we are seeing now started with proposals and a few builds in New York in the starchitect playground. They started to figure out where this trend is headed and are now bringing it to other cities. It is still in the early stages so if Boston gets one of these towers this early it will be surprising. We usually wait a while and feel it out for a bit before we dive in (besides the Hancock tower-minimalist modernist).

Architects are now starting to figure out ways to design a modern "art deco" facade using modern building methods and materials. You are still seeing relatively plain glass towers going up (salesforce), but there are also many proposals or u/c that are taking it to a new level (tower verre). The modern era of glass is finally maturing and architects are now going to be able to do all kinds of different things that are going to push the boundaries to new heights, while also creating wonderful buildings in the process. They have perfected the glass facade and are actually either moving away from it now or building heavily detailed glass facades. These two examples can even be seen in Accordia and Millennium. Accordia is using a mix of materials to create a lot of depth to the facade. Millennium is using all glass but has added a curtain blind effect that twists and looks to open as it moves towards the ground. Theres a bunch of examples planned in New York right now from Tower Verre to 340 flatbush in Brooklyn.

Architecture seems to now be entering a new golden era. Now and a few years from now there is going to be a visible shift in the way buildings are designed and sculpted. You can even see this in the seaport at a very basic level from Vertex to the M parcel. Vertex was trying to catch up to a missed time period, parcel M is moving forward along with pier 4. Again at the very bare minimum level. There is also a shift towards most new buildings having engaging street level presences and in many cases retail. WTC1 and Salesforce tower may be a few of the last examples of the boring blue glass era of modern architecture when looking back at them in the future. This era if it is ending now will have lasted about 30-40 years. Art deco lasted from 1925 to the 40's which is about the same period of time. Brutalism lasted about 25. They may just lump this in with modern architecture but it appears to be much more. Well see, either way its great that this could possibly be coming to Boston earlier than usual unless it is VE'd to all hell.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I feel like 111 W 57th (Also SHoP), better illustrates your point better than Tower Verre. There's already a mock-up of the facade, and IMO it looks fantastic.

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Both 111 W 57 & 340 Flatbush are SHoP designs.

Tower Verre is a great example of how the structural elements can play into the design of the facade.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

Tower Verre was my take on materials progression away from glass. The elegance is in the structure which is not a completely new idea but they took it to a new level. 340 flatbush was my take on the glass art deco evolution that seems to be happening. 111 W 57 is another very good example that shows how NY is experimenting a lot on what direction modern architecture is taking and also getting it right in the process. It has even more ornamentation on the glass along with the structure being elegant in itself. Theres a few examples in NY and they all seem to be pushing new boundaries in one way or another. The "starchitects" are pushing it and they are starting to figure out what this is going to look like.

One thing I forgot to mention is the masonry art deco evolution as well. Im pretty sure we surprisingly did it first with Liberty mutual and NY is adding 30 park place and a few others. Chicago had a residential that I remember using this concept but this was the very early stages of this revival and they did not hit the mark anywhere near where these did. 30 park and Liberty mutual are the gatekeepers of this new old style. Im not sure what this masonry renewal is called or what this new direction of decorative glass, steel, and concrete is going to be called either, but either way both concepts are great to see popping up in different cities. They are both very much welcomed. The new "art deco" masonry or whatever is not catching on nearly as much but the few cities who were lucky enough to get it were blessed with great additions.

It would be nice if for a change Boston is one of the cities that adds THE great pieces of the time period vs missing out and trying to catch up later on while other cities dominate. Its our turn, were booming, and I feel really good about where architecture is headed and hopefully we are able to capitalize on this. Honestly we have been forever playing catch up to the cities that built great towers in the 20's, 30's, 40's, but some of these new buildings coming out may be just as good in a different way. We got the 50's and the 70's, which create a great base, but they do not shine on their own. We may not have a Chrysler building but now is our chance to build something as good as tower verre seeing that the materials and methods are current. Yea the FAA has us by the balls...but we may just have to sack up and throw down at one of these primetime parcels at dalton garage etc, and it does not have to be tomorrow this style will mature over the next few decades.

Side note- yes I use tower verre in a lot of examples, its damn good, and chopping off a few hundred feet may be the worst mistake NY has ever made on a possible all time icon.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I would not worry so much about VE cuts yet. This projet has yet to be approved.

Also, this isn't some Avalon Communities rental building.

This is a prime location. In NYC, the new Stern-designed Central Park South and 111 West 57th are made with top-shelf materials. I see no reason why this wouldn't as well. The Millennium Tower came out ok.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

If built this very well could be our entrance into the next generation of great architecture- at its beginning no less.
 
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Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

I think recently Boston has actually been at the front of some architectural trends with Liberty Mutual as a modern Art Deco style, the almost "cut" pinstripe effect on the Four Seasons is another style of the glass tower that is new to the scene, and One Bromfield and Accordia both resemble elements of 11 W 57th St. I think for the first time since the John Hancock Tower and City Hall/ the other brutalist buildings Boston is at the forefront of architecture after a short break following 80s POMO.
 
Re: 111 Federal St. | Formerly Trans National Place (Winthrop Square) Part 2

citylover94 said:
...One Bromfield and Accordia both resemble elements of 11 W 57th St.....
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Citylover, while I agree this is quite the special age for boston (and there's a lot of potential on the horizon), let's not pat ourselves on the back too prematurely.

These two, in particular, are still quite nascent on the drawing board. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they actually materialize.
 
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