Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Your $0.02 is good by me.

617 said:
G...honestly this looks fine...for what it is.
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My only problem with it looking at it through the same lens as a park, library, ball field, or other public amenity.

617 said:
Let’s not compare this to the galleria in Milan etc bc they’re worlds apart.
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In both form and intent.

617 said:
I’m not sure if Marty deserves a pat on the back but $150M is very exciting for the city. I also applaud Marty for letting Boston rise so to speak.
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The money for the City's coffers is certainly notable. And though I'm happy to see so many large projects move forward, the clear need for better zoning, higher-grade design and materials, and a top-down revision of the ZBA process in the neighborhoods remains an imperative.

617 said:
Lastly, Philly is a dump outside of rittenhouse sq.
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That's rougher than even my assessment. Philly has great cultural and educational institutions and some handsome older buildings, but the very worst sports fans in America. And it's a truly awful place for anyone interested in enjoying quality distilled spirits.
 
KriterionBOS said:
I'll try to clarify what I meant. Everyone knows NYC's stats (biggest, most densely populated, most skyscrapers, tallest skyline, etc). The city rarely ever sleeps en masse.

My experiences in Boston and Philly are admittedly sparse (spent 3 days in Boston, 1 in Philly) but I've lived in Chicago and spent a few months in Manhattan.

[...]

So I think its a lot more even than people might think. Philly just has a few more people, but I don't think it "feels" bigger than Boston.
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I'm not going to question how someone else feels, but as someone who has spent a ton of time in both cities, I definitely think Philly feels significantly bigger. Actually, one of the things I love about Boston is how small it feels despite being a world class city.

Neither feels anything like Manhattan to me.

Then again, if you only spent time around 30th St. I guess that probably explains your opinion. Look a map. :)

617 said:
My $0.2

Lastly, Philly is a dump outside of rittenhouse sq. It also doesn’t feel like a major city imo...more second tier. DC is pretty cool but I agree it feels smaller bc it’s squat. Chicago is awesome, feels big, tall, but Boston is just as vibrant if not more so...and much safer. Miami is great but can’t be compared with Boston. It feels mid size. LA feels mid size to me as well, the city part anyway. Ny is in a league of its own.
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Your hometown bias is showing.
 
Java King said:
The building is a great addition overall to Boston, but it makes me sad that we could have had a smaller version of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookfield_Place_(Toronto)#/media/File:Brookfield_Pl._1_06.11.04.jpg

Maybe with Marche too? I miss Marche at the Prudential Center. There is one in the atrium of this building in Toronto.
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Good call! In terms of making downtown a place worth visiting even in the winter, Canadian cities definitely have us beat. Honestly, I rarely go anywhere in Boston during the winter but you'll find me walking through the indoor arcades and shops of Toronto regardless of the weather.
 
Those pictures stick ripped.... that's a lobby. That's any office tower's lobby. Let's not get this confused. The city in no way should let them wiggle out of what they promised.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
Those pictures stick ripped.... that's a lobby. That's any office tower's lobby. Let's not get this confused. The city in no way should let them wiggle out of what they promised.
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I’m not saying it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, but that is NOT a typical office lobby. Show me even one office lobby in Boston with that much activation and I’ll buy you dinner.
 
I hope they at least follow through with the giant Monét prints. They could have a rotation. Maybe coordinate with the MFA or Isabella Stuart.
 
Might as well press to bring back the observation deck at this point.
 
617 said:
My $0.2

Lastly, Philly is a dump outside of rittenhouse sq. It also doesn’t feel like a major city imo...more second tier. DC is pretty cool but I agree it feels smaller bc it’s squat. Chicago is awesome, feels big, tall, but Boston is just as vibrant if not more so...and much safer. Miami is great but can’t be compared with Boston. It feels mid size. LA feels mid size to me as well, the city part anyway. Ny is in a league of its own.
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We mostly agree regarding Philly, Boston, and DC. Chicago is certainly "the 2nd city" in terms of impressiveness. Even LA feels smaller than Chicago. But LA still feels pretty big. Boston is probably a more vibrant city than all but a few in the US. It certainly world class in all respects, except perhaps in affordability for middle class Americans.

But I disagree about Miami. Yeah its just geographical so different from BOS that it feels like its in an different country alltogether. But Miami feels "big" IMO.

But yeah NYC is in a league of its own.
 
bakgwailo said:
Might as well press to bring back the observation deck at this point.
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it's still absolute bullshit that JHT is allowed to not maintain the mandated observation deck simply b/c some halfwit at city hall lost the documentation regarding that stipulation.
 
i think it like this; They over bid. Looked at the numbers (what have we done?) and reset the height to 775'. Lost 84'. Got some of the money back with a fat tower, and eventually lived to fight another day with the 2 tower plan. i figure the maxed out design still came up a bit short. Sometimes, the builders fill ugly holes and thoughtful people can't believe how good things can turn out. Other times they have to scrap a Great Hallway for Hudson News and a Starbucks.
 
bakgwailo said:
Might as well press to bring back the observation deck at this point.
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^I don't believe that would happen . I think the confusion arises with all of this from the beginning: I don't remember if there was an RFI to discuss what ideas/features the property might feature before they put out the RFP, but an observation deck requirement wasn't set in stone. I remember the observation deck being discussed, as well as "iconic" architecture. (Which is subjective in itself-one person's example of "iconic" is another person's example of "hideous") So maybe the rationale is now that enough people think we got an "iconic" development, and the elimination of the observation deck, then the Great Hall are just part of the process. If it wasn't mandated, it was not going to happen, plus I'm not sure an observation deck would go over big with the residents on the upper levels. Summary: "iconic" Architecture was really the only real requirement in the end. (plus the nice loot doesn't hurt/$153 million-which is expected to jump to $163 million when condo sales are added)
 
The city made an observation deck a requirement in order for the buyer to qualify to buy the property from them. If the buyer didnt agree, the city doesnt sell them the land. Millennium persuaded them that the great hall would have much more public benefit than an observation deck would, so they allowed it. Thats what happened. Personaly I dont think the original great hall was going to be so great either, but thats what happened.
 
stick n move said:
The city made an observation deck a requirement in order for the buyer to qualify to buy the property from them. If the buyer didnt agree, the city doesnt sell them the land. Millennium persuaded them that the great hall would have much more public benefit than an observation deck would, so they allowed it. Thats what happened. Personaly I dont think the original great hall was going to be so great either, but thats what happened.
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^ Oh wow, my apologies then. I didn't realize that was an absolute initially. If I were Maahty, I would ask Millennium to make it up somehow. Do they think their very high winning bid gives them more breathing room to deviate without repercussions? Either do something big in keeping with the "iconic" original plans here,(like they were supposed to) or something else. (I'd make them pay to install LED highlighting on the Tobin Bridge-that would be "iconic") :)
 
lapradetom said:
^ Oh wow, my apologies then. I didn't realize that was an absolute initially. If I were Maahty, I would ask Millennium to make it up somehow. Do they think their very high winning bid gives them more breathing room to deviate without repercussions? Either do something big in keeping with the "iconic" original plans here,(like they were supposed to) or something else. (I'd make them pay to install LED highlighting on the Tobin Bridge-that would be "iconic") :)
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They've done the bait and switch twice now for this building and they are laughing their asses off at a City that (for some reason) doesn't seem to realize that it is one of the hottest real estate markets on earth.

Marty should take Millenium by the throat and tell them REALITY just showed up. We're switching places, bud. The City is now going to be the party to unilaterally bait and switch - - Great Hall AND Observation Deck, bucko!

And if you don't like it, thanks for the prep work, we're going back to the 4 runners up. MT has no leg to stand on if they say "Oh you went back on a promise" - - they did so twice themselves.

Now THAT would send a message to developers how to behave themselves in the future if they want to do business in the Palace.
 
fattony said:
I’m not saying it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, but that is NOT a typical office lobby. Show me even one office lobby in Boston with that much activation and I’ll buy you dinner.
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One Boston Place has a cafe and seating in the lobby, more or less what this is. I'm sure there's a dozen other office lobbies that have cafes now. 125 summer has some cafe in it if my memory serves. 6 St James (Liberty Mutual) has a cafe and seating in the lobby.

I see a fancy office lobby that's being called a public space. I bet the average joe will be intimidated to step foot in there thinking theyre going to get escorted out by security- ie exactly what they want people to think.

City- we require a public observation deck
Dev- How about a GREAT HALL! It will be better than an observation deck!
City-ok
Dev-We're reconceptualizing the great hall into a CONNECTOR! It will be awesome!
(what the city should say) GTFO with your lobby, build what you're required to
 
I'm surprised The Globe hasn't gone all screechy about this one yet honestly. They must be too busy inciting class warfare instead.
 
The current renderings look very disappointing compared to what was proposed from the original plans.

It looks similar to a Post Office Square type idea creation.
 
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