Perhaps but I think it’s a safe bet that the high end market isn't going to roar back to life at a rate that will support significant sales volume here and at other new projects like 40 Trinity and 150 Seaport(especially when factoring in resales with the opportunity for immediate occupancy at MT, One Dalton and elsewhere in the Seaport).
Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District
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Perhaps but I think it’s a safe bet that the high end market isn't going to roar back to life at a rate that will support significant sales volume here and at other new projects like 40 Trinity and 150 Seaport(especially when factoring in resales with the opportunity for immediate occupancy at MT, One Dalton and elsewhere in the Seaport).
Equilibria
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Astute insight.
jdrinboston
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Missed this part....this one is a biggie:
2.The residential component of the Project will initially be a rental program, which will necessitate modifications to the Project’s affordable housing agreement. The Proponent anticipates submitting theProject to a condominium regime pursuant to M.G.L. ch. 183A prior to leasing apartments to residential tenants
2.The residential component of the Project will initially be a rental program, which will necessitate modifications to the Project’s affordable housing agreement. The Proponent anticipates submitting theProject to a condominium regime pursuant to M.G.L. ch. 183A prior to leasing apartments to residential tenants
stick n move
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bpda.box.com
Upgrade from PO Square, downgrade from Dewey Square, IMO.
Screengrabs
I hope theyre not going to try to give less money over. They didnt specify what "modifications" means. Definitely one to watch.
Also I know that the upgrades to the common come from this project. I believe the money came from the sale of the property, so hopefully that cant be affected.
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Equilibria
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From the Globe:
www.bostonglobe.com
Summary: MP has no financing for this project, and is in danger of canceling it entirely. They're confident that by downsizing and switching to apartments they can find a source of capital.
Additional take: The BPDA made the right choice in going with MP for this. A lesser developer (coughvornadocough) would already have taken the excuse to bail.
Financing crunch forces developers to downsize plan for Winthrop Center tower - The Boston Globe
Millennium Partners trades condos for apartments, but says the 690-foot-high building is still on track to open in 2022.
www.bostonglobe.com
Summary: MP has no financing for this project, and is in danger of canceling it entirely. They're confident that by downsizing and switching to apartments they can find a source of capital.
Additional take: The BPDA made the right choice in going with MP for this. A lesser developer (coughvornadocough) would already have taken the excuse to bail.
stick n move
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From the Globe:
Financing crunch forces developers to downsize plan for Winthrop Center tower - The Boston Globe
Millennium Partners trades condos for apartments, but says the 690-foot-high building is still on track to open in 2022.
Summary: MP has no financing for this project, and is in danger of canceling it entirely. They're confident that by downsizing and switching to apartments they can find a source of capital.
Additional take: The BPDA made the right choice in going with MP for this. A lesser developer (coughvornadocough) would already have taken the excuse to bail.
Jeez
Looks much better than a couple floors of an abandoned building sticking out of the ground in the middle of downtown.
Thank God they didn't reduce the height of the main tower any further. From a lot of angles it actually looks better now, much slimmer on the skyline overall so it visually embraces its height more. As a visual admirer I could take it or leave it as to whichever version is built.
Obviously the loss of housing isn't great, and the affordable housing component is set to be a gem so hopefully that one isn't downsized either!
Obviously the loss of housing isn't great, and the affordable housing component is set to be a gem so hopefully that one isn't downsized either!
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jdrinboston
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Does anybody else find it a bit odd that MP feels confident that they can finance this project by lopping off 60 or so residential units, meanwhile they have just under 800,000 in completely spec office space in this project - and that doesn't appear to be a problem at all?
Seems odd to me that reducing a relatively small number of what is now rental residential could save this project, while a massive amount of office space - which will end up competing against several other new, large office buildings - i.e. South Station Tower - is completely salable to lenders.
Seems odd to me that reducing a relatively small number of what is now rental residential could save this project, while a massive amount of office space - which will end up competing against several other new, large office buildings - i.e. South Station Tower - is completely salable to lenders.
Johnnyrocket891
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This project is screwed.
boston Is in trouble, the cities that are gentrified are living off a massive debt bubble, there is no local economy to support these condos or rental units.
nobody is buying 800k condo in the city of Boston with all the corporation's downsizing and retail is shutting down.
not sure how the new buildings in the Seaport survive without investors taking massive losses.
better off buying in multifamily in New Bedford.
boston Is in trouble, the cities that are gentrified are living off a massive debt bubble, there is no local economy to support these condos or rental units.
nobody is buying 800k condo in the city of Boston with all the corporation's downsizing and retail is shutting down.
not sure how the new buildings in the Seaport survive without investors taking massive losses.
better off buying in multifamily in New Bedford.
This project is not screwed. If anything it looks better now. The pivot to rental and reduction of condo units was probably a lever built into the project from day 1. Smart of millennium to plan ahead. I do agree the spec office space could be a problem with WFH momentum. Who knows if it will actually stick around. I’ve been working remote since March with no plans to return until 2021. When I do go back I do not expect to be remote full time ever again. If anything WFH 1 or 2 days a week. Business will still need office space and the competition isn’t that much. 10 PO sq and 1 Congress. Oh and for the record high end condos are still selling strong from what I’ve seen.
Suffolk 83
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I think we should lament the loss of density here. If I were the city I would ask them to completely table the second building for now and see it as a phase two down the road. There shouldnt be anything new being built in the financial district thats only 30 stories high as principle, its a waste of prime real estate.
Johnnyrocket891
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Let me rephrase--- The investors are screwed.
The cost of the project versus what they can actually get out of the market. How low will commercial price per square foot drops in the city?
Now become rentals--- Wonder if they are counting on subsidize housing for $4000 a month?
The current market conditions we are possibly heading for Global Great Depression that might make 1929 look like bump.
Winthrop was just bad timing. Maybe the Fed can just drop of 800 Million in cash to the investors.
I could see Millennium Partners walking away in 4-Months leaving a hole in downtown and partial structure built or ask the city for another tax break similar to Filenes project.
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Interest rates at zero, hopefully there’s some pension fund or some other investor willing to invest in Boston. Perhaps the other investors from MT willing to jump in. I refuse to believe there’s going to be a hole downtown.
Wasn’t there a hotel portion in this building as well?
Wasn’t there a hotel portion in this building as well?
Not specific to Winthrop Square but I reject the notion that we're all going to be working from home permanently now so everyone might as well pack up and move to Mississippi because its cheaper to live down there. If you're trying to work from home with young children in the house, good Lord are you dying to get back into the office. Try concentrating for 5 minutes straight without someone needing to "go potty" and then someone else needing a snack and all that. All day every day! I for one will be happy to get back to downtown as soon as I can.
The other thing to consider is that there's been an idiotic trend in recent years of an open floor space which is an attempt by large corporations to save money on how much square footage they need to rent by herding everyone into one floor like cattle with no assigned seating and all that. IIRC that's one reason why State Street Bank is moving its HQ to a new building. In a post Covid world that concept is now circling the drain and its arguable that offices will need more space to achieve proper distancing going forward.
The other thing to consider is that there's been an idiotic trend in recent years of an open floor space which is an attempt by large corporations to save money on how much square footage they need to rent by herding everyone into one floor like cattle with no assigned seating and all that. IIRC that's one reason why State Street Bank is moving its HQ to a new building. In a post Covid world that concept is now circling the drain and its arguable that offices will need more space to achieve proper distancing going forward.
Johnnyrocket891
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^^^^
I agree 100%.
The companies that think they can work from home will become outdated in their industry because you need innovation.
Bringing people & networks together create innovation & ideas. (Working from home alone doesn't)
I think we will see a good correction in the city and some projects either get bailed out based on how leveraged the corporations are.
M-Walsh will do what he told by corporate leaders.
What I do believe is the Suburban Office Park model is going to have a tougher time than the actual downtown towers.
I don't see the V-shaped recovery on this. There will be more of an L-Shaped if we are lucky until we get a direction on where the world is heading.
I agree 100%.
The companies that think they can work from home will become outdated in their industry because you need innovation.
Bringing people & networks together create innovation & ideas. (Working from home alone doesn't)
I think we will see a good correction in the city and some projects either get bailed out based on how leveraged the corporations are.
M-Walsh will do what he told by corporate leaders.
What I do believe is the Suburban Office Park model is going to have a tougher time than the actual downtown towers.
I don't see the V-shaped recovery on this. There will be more of an L-Shaped if we are lucky until we get a direction on where the world is heading.
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Kind of tough to do that when it's all 1 building though. Plus that wing is an integral part of the Great Hall or whatever they're calling it now. I don't see how this would work logistically.
FitchburgLine
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Seems overwrought. Unless you have insider information that Moderna (hey, local angle!) and Oxford and J&J and SinoVac and CamSino will fail, in 12-18 months you're looking at a world very similar to that of Jan 2020, when there was plenty of demand to work in downtown Boston. None of the projects under discussion here would finish before that date even without disruption. Why would this help New Bedford, which wasn't in high demand either before or now?
a_tortoise
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This seems like a huge improvement with respect to the massing. However, I hope that the city pushes back a bit and requires Millennium to eventually construct the 60 units that were eliminated as off-site affordable units at some point in the not-too-distant future.