Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

a_tortoise said:
This seems like a huge improvement with respect to the massing. However, I hope that the city pushes back a bit and requires Millennium to eventually construct the 60 units that were eliminated as off-site affordable units at some point in the not-too-distant future.
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I think you are misunderstanding the linkage impact here to affordable housing.

The 60 units being eliminated were market rate units. There are no affordable units on site with this development. Additionally, the remaining market rate units are being downgraded in value by shifting from condo to apartment.

The affordable units being impacted are at the Parcel-P12C development on the edge of Chinatown:

Parcel P-12 | 286-290 Tremont St | Chinatown

From what I gather, the Boston Arts Academy is planning on building a school on parcel-12, the parking lot adjacent to the old Don Bosco parking lot running between Washington and Tremont Streets. Here is an excerpt from a May 2008 entry to the Boston Chinatown Blog: Word on the street is...
archboston.com

http://www.bostonplans.org/projects/development-projects/290-tremont-street-(parcel-p-12c)

This development is largely financed by the affordable linkage contribution from Winthrop Place. But the value of the market rate housing at Winthrop Place is dropping, so by definition the affordable linkage funding also drops. This puts the Parcel-P12C project in severe jeopardy for financing.
 
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In the globe article It says Larkin wants to “both” build the affordable Chinatown development and pay the city the extra $50M in spite of the reduction of units and pivot to rental...so we’re good. With any luck the end result is that the office tower looks better overall and all the affordable units still get built and the city still gets paid.
 
617 said:
In the globe article It says Larkin wants to “both” build the affordable Chinatown development and pay the city the extra $50M in spite of the reduction of units and pivot to rental.
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I really hope that holds. They don't have to per the formula used.
 
FitchburgLine said:
Seems overwrought. Unless you have insider information that Moderna (hey, local angle!) and Oxford and J&J and SinoVac and CamSino will fail, in 12-18 months you're looking at a world very similar to that of Jan 2020, when there was plenty of demand to work in downtown Boston. None of the projects under discussion here would finish before that date even without disruption. Why would this help New Bedford, which wasn't in high demand either before or now?
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NewBedford comment to me? NewBedford is not dependent on the corporate machine its more of a local economy that is why I made the comment of just buying a 2-3 Family unit down there. It sort of a joke.

First off I actually think Sinovac (Chinese Biotech Corporation) which happens to have both the vaccines for Sars and the Birdflu along with Bill Gates visiting the corporation back in 2010. I actually like their odds.

Piper Jaffray Likes Sinovac Biotech (SVA) - Sinovac Biotech (NASDAQ:SVA)

www.benzinga.com www.benzinga.com
 
stoweker said:
institutional investors are pulling money from core coastal markets right now. no one is touching this thing for new investment. i'm shocked they started this without money lined up.
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Could you elaborate on this a bit? What is it about the coastal cities specifically that is causing inventors to pull away? Is it purely COVID, or are there other factors at play. Without stirring up a political hornets' nest, I would be lying if I said I hadn't wondered what effect the protests of the past couple of weeks might have on the markability of downtown living to suburban empty nesters.
 
FitchburgLine said:
Seems overwrought. Unless you have insider information that Moderna (hey, local angle!) and Oxford and J&J and SinoVac and CamSino will fail, in 12-18 months you're looking at a world very similar to that of Jan 2020, when there was plenty of demand to work in downtown Boston. None of the projects under discussion here would finish before that date even without disruption. Why would this help New Bedford, which wasn't in high demand either before or now?
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There will still be demand for downtown office space, but it is going to be reduced. I already know several companies that are moving part of their operations fully remote. Basically Covid-19 became a great way of companies to experiment with WFH and see if it works. In some cases it makes more sense than others and those companies are now thinking about their next lease agreements.
 
meddlepal said:
There will still be demand for downtown office space, but it is going to be reduced. I already know several companies that are moving part of their operations fully remote. Basically Covid-19 became a great way of companies to experiment with WFH and see if it works. In some cases it makes more sense than others and those companies are now thinking about their next lease agreements.
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We already have a good point of comparison for "2020 downtown Boston, but there's dramatically less demand to locate there" - 2007 downtown Boston. In both cases the number of workers was limited by the City of Boston zoning code. In some theoretical world where we got rid of Article 80B I agree this would be a significant long-term factor
 
The problem in downtown is its a debt bubble economy. There is no community its all gentrification based on the corporate machine.
Corporations are also downsizing-
40+million unemployed do you really believe that buying condos in Boston is a good investment.
People are moving back home and the American Consumer is hunkering down.

Covid-19 was the pin that just popped a much severe Global Debt bubble. The gentrification cities will finally see an emptying out scenario.
I'm sure families are going to also look at spending 25-50K a year at these Universities as a waste of money.

Boston, LA, NYC----Good luck

Winthrop and other projects that currently broke ground are going to need to be bailed out or maybe they go bankrupt. The existing buildings that are not leveraged can lower their rents to survive the current expected blood bath that is coming to highly leveraged commercial real estate market.

This crash will be EPIC
 
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Johnnyrocket891 said:
This project is screwed.

boston Is in trouble, the cities that are gentrified are living off a massive debt bubble, there is no local economy to support these condos or rental units.

nobody is buying 800k condo in the city of Boston with all the corporation's downsizing and retail is shutting down.

not sure how the new buildings in the Seaport survive without investors taking massive losses.

better off buying in multifamily in New Bedford.
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Tech, bio tech, higher education, tourism, pro sports, finance. Just some components of the local economy.
I’m looking to upgrade my Boston condo situation to something in the price range you mentioned. I’m sure I’m not alone.
 
A few thoughts:

1) 40M unemployed is horrific but isn't this mostly confined to the retail and services sectors? As in the typical office space worker has yet to be canned, or if they have been furloughed (airlines and aircraft manufactures for example) there's some hope of them coming back eventually unless the transporter from Star Trek goes on line soon.

2) WFH seems like one of those "the grass is always greener on the other side" kind of things. As in it seems great if you aren't doing it, but after 6 months of it you've pretty much had your fill. I can see a staggered workweek where you do a couple of days at home while your co-workers are in the office but I can't see a situation of large scale WFH's. Its unproductive as all hell even if your job allows it thanks to needy kids and yapping spouses amongst other things.

3) Every 10 years recession or not a bunch of the smart people put forth a recurring theory that the boring Midwestern city du jour is the next hot spot and will put coastal cities out of business in terms of jobs and population growth due to their low cost of living. Usually its Cincy or Pittsburgh but occasionally Omaha, Cleveland and Milwaukee work their way in there. All I will say about that is I'll believe it when I see it.
 
This is one of the more interesting conversations I’ve ever seen on here. The problem is there’s a lot of unknowns. I would love to see some sales/inventory data 2020 vs prior year but anecdotal evidence shows that condos are being bought and sold fairly quickly And high price points in the downtown neighborhoods. I’m a little further away from DTX info but I’d be curious to know how it’s doing. Personally I would never want to live around there but MT sold out somehow. Lastly, again anecdotally my company’s lease is up on their building in NYC and they’re actively searching for new space with no plans to leave wall st area or downsize.
 
At this point, I'll make a prediction: MP may be a profit-driven developer like any other, but they are not vandals and they have generally been good corporate citizens. They will not pull a Vornado on this site.

What I do think could happen - MP finishes the underground parking portion of the project and constructs the first couple of floors, including the "great hall," and restores the adjacent park to presentability. In the interim, they collect revenue off of the parking and rental from the ground floor retail to help recoup some of their sunk costs and once the market improves in a few years, they simply start building off of the podium, similar to how 3 WTC was constructed in NYC.

Not the ideal timeline that we would hope for, but I trully don't think MP will leave an unsightly hole on this site.
 
Rover said:
A few thoughts:

1) 40M unemployed is horrific but isn't this mostly confined to the retail and services sectors? As in the typical office space worker has yet to be canned, or if they have been furloughed (airlines and aircraft manufactures for example) there's some hope of them coming back eventually unless the transporter from Star Trek goes on line soon.
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I'm factoring in the new round layoffs---by the corporations
*Those 100K White collar jobs will enter the unemployment line in my opinion.
* If restaurants & retail are under (Who is going to pay the rent to the landlords)
It really could domino. The FED can print unlimited amounts of dollars but the debt numbers are showing a a tsunami of Global Debt that they cannot stop.

The other sad fact is watching how America is falling into socialism. I expect the Fed/Govt to start to issuing $10,000 dollar checks to family's if the economy does not pick up steam by Sept.
 
Johnnyrocket891 said:
I'm factoring in the new round layoffs---by the corporations
*Those 100K White collar jobs will enter the unemployment line in my opinion.
* If restaurants & retail are under (Who is going to pay the rent to the landlords)
It really could domino. The FED can print unlimited amounts of dollars but the debt numbers are showing a a tsunami of Global Debt that they cannot stop.

The other sad fact is watching how America is falling into socialism. I expect the Fed/Govt to start to issuing $10,000 dollar checks to family's if the economy does not pick up steam by Sept.
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Your writing style, tone, and political sentiments are remarkably similar to the (mercifully) departed Rifleman's... are you sure you're not him in disguise?
 
DBM said:
Your writing style, tone, and political sentiments are remarkably similar to the (mercifully) departed
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What does this have to do with the conversation with other members concerning the fact that Winthrop Street might not possibly built as proposed under the current market conditions?
Are you rifleman?
 
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Downsizing the project: ?

Why alter the plan for residential units when we have housing crisis in Boston?


Millennium Partners Development History--- In Boston looks very positive- The developer should finish what they proposed since they won the rights to replace the garage.

Winthrop Center developer alters plans for 691-foot Boston tower
https://boston.curbed.com/boston-development/2019/10/29/20938652/winthrop-center-plans-change

Filenes Project history:
Millennium Partners --- Is this the same group that built that filled in the hole downtown and netted record condo price for the penthouse condo.
Millennium Tower”s $37.5M penthouse price tag shatters Boston
Developer wins tax break on Filene's site - The Boston Globe
 
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Doesn't look great from Dewey... maybe they can work on making the shorted second tower look a little more visually interesting.

I know I am in the minority (and maybe the only one here), but I wish they had gone with the Trinity proposal which would have put a large amount of additional amount of middle class and upper middle class residents in the area. That kind of density is really needed downtown which is dead after 7pm.

The misguided approach by activist/watchdogs to force the city to take as much money for the land sale still irks me.
 
Why would does Millennium Partners have to shorted the second tower? There is plenty of demand for housing.

There is still a housing shortage in Mass?
Boston Globe article written on Jan 2020
www.bostonglobe.com

Housing crisis needs all hands on deck - The Boston Globe

From Boston to Nantucket the crunch is real, it's painful, and it demands solutions.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

The city of Boston needs more supply.
 
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