Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive - Parcel C | Seaport

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

BosDevelop said:
Buying a $2 million condo is one thing. Maintaining it is another. It would be next to impossible to maintain a $2 million condo on a "modest income" as you say. The condo fees alone for such a unit in what will be one of the premiere waterfront condos in the city will easily be $2,000-$3,000+ a month. Then add around another $2,000 a month in taxes and you are over $50,000 a year in just condo fees and taxes. Perhaps your definition of modest income is different from mine but I would never expect anyone with a modest income to be dropping north of $50,000 a year in condo fees and taxes.
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BosD -- in the Greater Boston Area you need to check the income data:

Real Median Family Income for Boston Massachusetts [ACS]

2012
US $62,527
Massachusetts $82,977
Boston $90,713

in other words 1/2 of families have income above and 1/2 below

This basically means that Modest Income for a family of 3 or 4 is $150k - $200K -- easily achieved by two income family who would work and live in the Seaport / Innovation District

By the way -- I doubt that a $2M Condo costs $50k per year for fees and Taxes -- Boston Real Estate Taxes are quite low
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

I am very surprised by the latest rendering. I liked the curved glass (really the fan of fan pier). If this is just a flat front, I think the views of and from the building lose a lot. Hopefully it was just the angle, but I hope it doesn't change much from initially.

Also, I am not worried about the finances of anyone in this building. They can't cry poor after spending all their money.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

BosDev doesn't know what he's talking about. He's probably never owned any real estate. Your taxes are determined by what the city of Boston accesses. The accessed value of a condo/home is usually much lower than the market value. PLUS, once you get a residential exemption, your taxes are cut by 33-45%.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

choo said:
I am very surprised by the latest rendering. I liked the curved glass (really the fan of fan pier). If this is just a flat front, I think the views of and from the building lose a lot. Hopefully it was just the angle, but I hope it doesn't change much from initially.
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Pretty sure the flat front is the older rendering, curved one is newer. Flat front has got a date on the bottom of January 2013.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Assesses, not accesses.

The assessed value is typically lower, but not "much lower" than the market value. During the Great Recession, assessed values were sometimes higher than market value.

The residential exemption for owner occupied homes cuts the property tax by about 30 percent.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

stellarfun said:
Assesses, not accesses.

The assessed value is typically lower, but not "much lower" than the market value. During the Great Recession, assessed values were sometimes higher than market value.

The residential exemption for owner occupied homes cuts the property tax by about 30 percent.
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Well then Sherlock...how come I sold my place for $369k and it was assessed by the city of Boston at $293k? That's pretty significant. I SAVED A BUTTLOAD OF MONEY ON TAXES!!!

Also....my residential exemption was much larger than 30%. I'd say it was closer to 40%
 
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Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Are they building both buildings of just the one in front of vertex?
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

stellarfun said:
The residential exemption for owner occupied homes cuts the property tax by about 30 percent.
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The residential exemption is not based on a percent of the value an individual unit. The residential exemption is 30% of the average value of all residential property in the City. So, if your home is assessed at a third of the average assessment then with the exemption you would pay no tax. If your property is assessed at 2 million, your exemption would amount to about 7% of your tax due. Currently the exemption reduces the tax bill of owner occupued housing by $1,763. A property assessed at 2M would have a tax bill of $25,160 minus the exemption of $1763 leaving $23,397 due in taxes.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

datadyne007 said:
There is only one building.
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I was asking when the one on the left here is being built.

22%20liberty.jpg
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

davem said:
"Has room for improvement" and "sucks" are two completely different things. And frankly, considering the red, orange and green lines are breaking down every other day and are woefully overcrowded, the silver line is currently one of the best lines on the system from an operational standpoint. Its a good thing your friend knows you well enough not to listen to you.
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Seriously.

Have you people not been following the news?

Every day, a red line train breaks down, and the entire line does as well for an hour.

Silver line? No problem. It takes minutes, not hours, to tow a bus. If the breakdown is at the station (most likely place, as its where the engine does most work), there are no columns so buses can just drive around the stalled vehicles if the panto is lowered.

Only downside is lack of supermarket at the waterfront.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

whighlander said:
By the way -- I doubt that a $2M Condo costs $50k per year for fees and Taxes -- Boston Real Estate Taxes are quite low
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Wrong again mojambo. $50k is exactly the number for a $2m condo in a new building, estimating condo fees at $2k/month.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

jass said:
Only downside is lack of supermarket at the waterfront.
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A major supermarket has been floated as the "next" big thing in the Seaport for 10 years, on a number of occasions to spice up press releases accompanying bland office tower groundbreakings.

But, as I understand, a major supermarket won't arrive in the Seaport until there are upwards of 3,500-5,000 residents within a 1/2 mile radius. Supermarkets require high density residential, or large parking lots.

With the BRA lowering Seaport's full build residential projections in recent years, an expectation that a supermarket will be arriving anytime soon is, IMHO, misplaced.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

three houses in the same boston neighborhood, 2014 assessments and taxes

house 1
394,000 assessed value
4960 gross tax,
no residential exemption
4960 net tax
457,000 2007 previous peak assessed value and year

house 2
365,000 assessed value
4595 gross tax
1765 residential exemption
2830 net tax
38.4 percent reduction in tax
337,000 2006 previous peak assessed value and year

house 3
495,000 assessed value
6230 gross tax
1765 residential exemption
4465 net tax
28.3 percent reduction in tax
555,000 2007 previous peak assessed value and year
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

stellarfun said:
three houses in the same boston neighborhood, 2014 assessments and taxes

house 1
394,000 assessed value
4960 gross tax,
no residential exemption
4960 net tax
457,000 2007 previous peak assessed value and year

house 2
365,000 assessed value
4595 gross tax
1765 residential exemption
2830 net tax
38.4 percent reduction in tax
337,000 2006 previous peak assessed value and year

house 3
495,000 assessed value
6230 gross tax
1765 residential exemption
4465 net tax
28.3 percent reduction in tax
555,000 2007 previous peak assessed value and year
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Not trying to be snippy, but I am not sure what your point is. These are 3 examples that all fall within the general average range of value in Boston, thus why the exemption amounts to about a third of the total bill. As the assessed value increases, the "value" (as a percent of the total) of the reduction/exemption decreases - eventually to the point where it does not offer much benefit. In the case of 22 Liberty, assessed values will peak in the multi million dollar range. The residential exemption will have little meaning for these owners. What the exemption does is says, "the first $135,000 (or so) of your assessed value is tax exempt."
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

kmp1284 said:
Wrong again mojambo. $50k is exactly the number for a $2m condo in a new building, estimating condo fees at $2k/month.
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Yes, here's an example: 3 Battery Wharf #3310 Boston, MA 02109
Look it up on New England Moves

Asking: 2.2 million
Association Fee:$2,115
Tax Amount:$28,523
total 2 lines above: $53,903
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Jason said:
Not trying to be snippy, but I am not sure what your point is. These are 3 examples that all fall within the general average range of value in Boston, thus why the exemption amounts to about a third of the total bill. As the assessed value increases, the "value" (as a percent of the total) of the reduction/exemption decreases - eventually to the point where it does not offer much benefit. In the case of 22 Liberty, assessed values will peak in the multi million dollar range. The residential exemption will have little meaning for these owners. What the exemption does is says, "the first $135,000 (or so) of your assessed value is tax exempt."
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Stellar is trying to show you that residential exemption differs among housing units that have similar assessments within the same neighborhood. Why is this? Somebody should explain it....and please no college-know-it-alls who don't own property in Boston.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

armpitsOFmight said:
Stellar is trying to show you that residential exemption differs among housing units that have similar assessments within the same neighborhood. Why is this? Somebody should explain it....and please no college-know-it-alls who don't own property in Boston.
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As Stellar listed, the exemption does not differ (always $1765). The exemption is the same across all Boston neighborhoods and price points. That said, not all housing is eligible.
You don't get the residential exemption if the home is not the owner's primary residence. Meaning, you are not eligible for the exemption if you rent out your condo/house or if it is your second (or third...) home. In addition, if the home did not have the residential exemption applied to it (for whatever reason) the home needs to be your primary residence by Jan 1, 2013 in order to qualify for the exemption in FY2014 (July 2013 -June 2014). In the case of new developments it can take over a year for an owner to qualify for an exemption.
 
Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

armpitsOFmight said:
Stellar is trying to show you that residential exemption differs among housing units that have similar assessments within the same neighborhood. Why is this? Somebody should explain it....and please no college-know-it-alls who don't own property in Boston.
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Jason is correct in that the dollar value of a residential exemption is fixed, regardless of the assessed value of a property. The higher the assessed value, the less important to the taxpayer the exemption would be, because the dollar value amount is fixed. The lower the assessed value, the more significant is the exemption to a taxpayer. A residence with an assessed value of $140,000 would pay no property tax, because the value of the exemption would be about equal to the tax that would be owed if there was no exemption.

In the example I used, I chose one of the houses because its assessed value was the highest on record. The other two had higher assessed values in the past. As all three houses were proximate to each other on the same street, one explanation would be that the house with the highest assessment ever had recently made substantial improvements, which increased its value.

Assessors often juggle with land valuation. Two of the three houses in the example have the same lot size, one house's land is assessed for $151,000, the other for $137,000. The third house has a lot that is 75 percent larger, but its land is assessed for $181,000.
 
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