Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive - Parcel C | Seaport

[stick n move]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

I think this is going to be a beautiful building (an exception proving the rule), but it will be a pebble in the pond of a fairly bland skyline. In terms of ranking "high among the rest of the world's skylines"??? Wow... I don't mean to be negative, but there are lots of really beautiful skylines out there with increasingly dynamic architecture. On the positive side, street-level Boston is very engaging for the most part--very world class in my view--and I think developers are cognizant of that and trying to perpetuate that in many (if not most) parts of the city.

You missed the part where I said in 10 years, which would mean govt center garage towers, christian science towers, td garden towers, nashua st, south station tower, trans national place, filenes, a completed seaport.

 

[Tombstoner]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

You missed the part where I said in 10 years, which would mean govt center garage towers, christian science towers, td garden towers, nashua st, south station tower, trans national place, filenes, a completed seaport.

No, I didn't miss that part. I've seen the renderings for most of these and while some of these look like they will be quality construction, I would not say any of them look at all distinctive or iconic. Certainly, Boston will have more tall buildings but I don't think that means an impressive skyline. Of course, this is purely subjective, but I no longer hold out a lot of hope for "wow" buildings; I think street-level engagement is far and away Boston's strong suit.

 

[stick n move]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

opinion

 

[whighlander]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Fair enough, I guess what I meant was more of a world class rapid transit network that we're lacking. Cities like London, Paris, Tokyo, New York (all admittedly much bigger) have dense networks that allow people to live without cars. Expansion of this system would lead to a lot of economic development, which in turn could eventually lead to boston being a world class city

Deet -- Without getting well off-topic -- Boston by any measure is a World Class City -- and to many extents it has been since its founding -- a few examples:

Boston [Bos / Cam] has been leading in education for its citizens from the very beginning and today is generally considered to host 2 of the Top 10 or so Universities and at least 4 of the Top 100

Boston is considered to lead in both Medical Research & Treatment and Bio Pharma development with 3 or 4 of the Top Hospitals and home for R&D by most of the Top Pharma Companies

Of the 150 Electrical Engineering Milestones recognized so far by the IEEE [Guardian of such things] -- Boston can claim 10: [The Telephone; Fire Alarm Telegraph; Electric Traction Power {the West End Street Railway}; Amplitude Modulation Radio Transmission; Microwave Radar; The Apollo Guidance Computer; the Semi Automated Ground Environment {NORAD and the predecessor of modern Air Traffic Control}; Whirlwind {the first Real-Time Computer}; LORAN {predecessor of GPS for navigation}; Packet Voice Communications ...[to be continued]

Mutual Funds -- the birthplace and remaining one of a handful of leading places for money managing

Something about the American Revolution

etc - etc.

Now some of this has happened around the periphery of the core city -- But today the core is once again growing as a place for people to live as well as work

You are right However that the T probably will have to go through some additional growing pains to accommodate the Boston Renaissance in residency and its continuing institutional growth -- as modern leading cities transform themselves once again

I for one have advocated that the Seaport / Innovation district which is being dug-up on a massive scale -- take advantage of the relative low cost of "Cut and Cover" to plumb itself with Silver Line Tunnels [which some would favor conversion to Green Line]

I think the potential of the Olympics could spark similar scale development in the likely site of the major Olympic complex on the site of the current Turnpike Toll Plaza and Rail yard in Alston

 

[DZH22]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

You missed the part where I said in 10 years, which would mean govt center garage towers, christian science towers, td garden towers, nashua st, south station tower, trans national place, filenes, a completed seaport.

I know this just measures height times quantity, but it's worth noting that Boston has fallen from 24 to 58 in under 10 years.

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html

On a North American scale, these developments could put Boston squarely back into the Top 10. On a world scale, we are getting significantly out-built by Asian, Australian, and now many large European cities. The only way Boston could have a "world class" skyline would be if we could snap our fingers and have every single one of these approved projects fully built within the next week or so. In 10 years we are going to fall further down that list. The upcoming construction boom should ensure we only drop a couple spots.

 

[stick n move]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

It isnt all about quantity thought, I dont think anyone would argue London is a world class city and it only has one building that just barely breaks 1000 ft.

 

[Tombstoner]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

opinion

Touché. That hadn't occured to me.

 

[DZH22]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

It isnt all about quantity thought, I dont think anyone would argue London is a world class city and it only has one building that just barely breaks 1000 ft.

Well, are you arguing about world class skyline, or world class city?

If you ask me, the city is already there, but the skyline will never be world class. Definitely will be Top 10 in the US though. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Well, are you arguing about world class skyline, or world class city?

If you ask me, the city is already there, but the skyline will never be world class. Definitely will be Top 10 in the US though. Nothing wrong with that.

Actually world Class Skyline is in the eye of the beholder -- from a distance no-one measures the height of the buildings -- what they see is the sea of low buildings and then the tops of the waves [tall buildings] -- but the sea can be 10 stories, 30 stories or even 100 stories and if the tops are nearly the same height the effect is not dramatic.

However, let the sea be 10 stories and inject a handful of Towers with a margin of 2X the sea height over the horizon -- and you have drama -- for instance the Pru and Hancock from Cambridge is a World Class View as is the massing of the Financial District from Piers' Park in Eastie

We know that these views are World Class because they are featured in films, video and the day to day views used as backdrops when one of the myriad of Boston Area based experts opines on some topic on a new program.

We are already seeing a growing number of views from Charlestown toward Boston Garden and North Station [particularly nightime featuring dramatic illumination of the cables of the bridge] -- that view mostly used so-far for Sports-related things is bound to increase in popularity as the area develops further

Haven't yet seen much of the upcoming waterside view of Seaport / Innovation skyline from Logan -- but I'm sure that we will soon see it more commonly [particularly with a few taller towers in the background poking above the 20 floor-ers at Fan Pier and Seaport Square]

 

[gooseberry]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

I have to agree, the difference in height between the Hancock and Pru and the rest of Back Bay makes the skyline from Cambridge really distinctive and beautiful. I don't know why so many people are desperate to see it filled in.

Too bad there will never be anything really tall in the seaport unless Logan Airport is moved, but the inadequate public transportation makes any more density then is already planned a bad idea. The transportation options are already being overwhelmed and it there is a lot more building still to be done.

 

[Cojapo]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

I think Boston's skyline is great and certainly one of the most recognizable in the world. I think some of that is due to it not changing dramatically over the past 25-30 years. While I don't think it is there is NYC or Hong Kong, it certainly can hold its own with a lot of cities. When you see a pic of the skyline and think Boston, you think of a classier city. That's the perception a lot of people around the country and even world have of Boston.
I do wish these new projects will get built because they are in the right areas to have height. Even if they are OK in how they look, they will never be as hideous as the Harbor Towers, and will only add to the skyline. And a few of these add a little at street level, so I think we are headed in the right direction.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

When you see a pic of the skyline and think Boston, you think of a classier city. That's the perception a lot of people around the country and even world have of Boston.

I don't know how true this is but from what I've seen, when people see a picture of Boston, they don't think of a "classier" (what does that even mean?) city. They think historical, small, quaint city that tends to have cold, unfriendly people who are terrible drivers and have weird accents and contains a plethora of colleges and universities.

I don't think the skyline would even strike them as more than an afterthought because Boston true defining characteristics are its historical and educational aspects.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Historical and educational would typically make people think of classier methinks.

You stay Classy Boston.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Historical and educational would typically make people think of classier methinks.

You stay Classy Boston.

Hmmm, I guess Cojapo and you are right to say the city overall is classy. The people, however, are stereotyped to be otherwise by outsiders.

 

[type001]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

The same thing goes for New York/New Yorkers. The people are stereotyped in a very similar way, but Northeasters know that it is not completely true.

In fact, the stereotype of any inhabitant anywhere is always going to be negative.

 

[617]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Is this the only building that will be condos? Everything else seems to be apartments.

Pier 4 - apts
Waterside place - apts
315 on A - apts

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Of all the building threads to have a discussion about world-class skylines, this is the one? Bizarre. 22 Liberty is like 15 stories. It's beautiful as rendered, yes, but has nothing to do with the skyline. Can this conversation go somewhere else?

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Not to support the continued derailing of threads but....... isn't this exactly the type of building and setting that could enhance a skyline. I htink most agree the proper skyline starts low at the waters edge and gradually increases to its zenith (typically) in the center of said skyline. This allows the eye to have such a palette to choose from and be bombarded by. It's the type of building, that one arriving by water will see first, and what great first view it would be.

Saying this has nothing to do with the skyline would be like saying Rowe's Wharf has nothing to do with the skyline. Maybe not skyline in the you can see the silhouette in the distance or through the haze, but down to the ground just like where the sky starts. Maybe the view from the water is more of a cityscape than skyline, but I for one think these can enhance the skyline.

That said, the location of this one, won't do too much, because nothing can be really built up behind it, and the channel keeps it disjointed from the main skyline.

 

[dshoost88]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Is this the only building that will be condos? Everything else seems to be apartments.

Pier 4 - apts
Waterside place - apts
315 on A - apts

Pier 4 has a few other phases (like 2 or 3 more buildings). The developers have said those new building's uses could be dictated by market demand. For instance, I think the tower they're building now was initially forecast to be an office building or a hotel.

So to answer your initial question; No. The demand is too high right now for condos, so as Seaport Square, Fan Pier, Pier 4, and the rest of the neighborhood develop we will see a number of new condos come online, too.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Twenty Two Liberty @ Fan Pier | 22 Liberty Drive | Seaport

Not to support the continued derailing of threads but....... isn't this exactly the type of building and setting that could enhance a skyline. I htink most agree the proper skyline starts low at the waters edge and gradually increases to its zenith (typically) in the center of said skyline. This allows the eye to have such a palette to choose from and be bombarded by. It's the type of building, that one arriving by water will see first, and what great first view it would be.

Saying this has nothing to do with the skyline would be like saying Rowe's Wharf has nothing to do with the skyline. Maybe not skyline in the you can see the silhouette in the distance or through the haze, but down to the ground just like where the sky starts. Maybe the view from the water is more of a cityscape than skyline, but I for one think these can enhance the skyline.

That said, the location of this one, won't do too much, because nothing can be really built up behind it, and the channel keeps it disjointed from the main skyline.

This. What I like about this building is that it is NOT the same height as the rest of the Seaport, giving variety in the area instead of a buzz cut. The only thing I wish this building has are more pronounced setbacks.