Crazy Transit Pitches

Davem,


That is a true New England Rail Network. Very cool to see this kinda thing. It touches all NE states. Perhaps it would be cool to see a line extension up the Connecticut River Valley up to White River Jct./Dartmouth/Hannover area?
 
Davem,


That is a true New England Rail Network. Very cool to see this kinda thing. It touches all NE states. Perhaps it would be cool to see a line extension up the Connecticut River Valley up to White River Jct./Dartmouth/Hannover area?

I thought about it, but with the trip times what would be the market? I can't imagine it going beyond Springfield, and is anyone past Northampton commuting there?
 
I thought about it, but with the trip times what would be the market? I can't imagine it going beyond Springfield, and is anyone past Northampton commuting there?

The Knowledge Corridor should extend up to Brattleboro , with hourly service north of Springfield. Service South of Springfield should run twice an hour in tiered levels... I'm sure Ive posted about this in the past. The Line would be Electric aswell....I would push for Electrification all the way up to St. Albans. I would speed things up to 110mph in Vermont and 135mph south Brattleboro...

Services would operate like this
Local / North - Brattleboro to Springfield Union , making stops at Brattleboro , Vernon , Mount Hermon , Bernardston , Greenfield , Deerfield , South Deerfield , Hatfield , Northampton , Mount Tom , Holyoke , Willimansett , Chicopee Center , Brightwood and Springfield would run every hour off peak and every 30mins during rush hour

Express - Brattleboro to New Haven Union , Making stops at Brattleboro , Greenfield , Northampton , Holyoke , State Street - Springfield , Windsor Locks , Hartford Union ,Berlin , New Haven - State and New Haven Union. This service would operate 2x per hour during peak hour , along with 6 roundtrips on weekends and Holidays

Local / South - Springfield Union to New Haven Union , making stops at Springfield Union , Springfield State , Longmeadow , Thompsonville , Windsor Locks , Windsor , North End - Hartford , Hartford Union , Newington , Berlin , Meriden , Wallingford , North Haven , Hamden , New Haven State and New Haven Union. This service would cover the more densely populated section of the knowledge corridor and thus would run every 10mins during rush hour and every 30mins offpeak...

I base my service levels off the New Haven line and other MNRR lines which are split into different blocks. As the ridership grows , more blocks could be added like an additional service operating in a local format from Hartford to New Haven to ease congestion...or a limited local which would skip or service just a certain part of the line... If the Knowledge corridor were to be built the way I envision it , I could see it becoming the next New Haven line... Connecting small neighborhoods with towns and cities....and Colleges and Universities...along with recreational places. The service has to be reasonable and the prices have to be low for you to see a huge change in commuting habits. I would assume most people who live along the corridor , live within a short drivable distance to a future station.... Add wifi , bathrooms and a cafe car on express trains and the line would become very popular. If it does well , then it would be very easy to get service extended to Pittsfield or North Adams or Worcester...
 
I've been thinking about the Quincy Adams area. Just whipped up a transit-oriented idea I had:
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zDJ7PZTCibXk.kWFvbszZ_QQQ

My main idea is to build a new station over part of the Home Depot lot. You'll need to take my word that that part of the lot is almost never occupied, except by people trying to see if they can park for free outside the station. I've seen maybe two dozen cars there on the busiest I've ever seen that HD.

So, put a new station there. My vision is for the Kiss and Ride traffic to enter near the southern end of the station, and then have the actual entrance to the station (where the commuters will be dropped off/picked up) near the northern end. This is to alleviate the current poor layout, where there is a hairpin turn immediately after you enter the station, which is also where most passengers wait for their ride. So, many drivers wait right in an area that is hard for other drivers to pull past them, and during rush hour, its just all jammed up. My layout avoids this.

The next problem for the station itself is the ramp for daily parking. I have a few solutions. 1) Just run it into the new station, running the path over the old station. 2) Curve the ramp a little sharper so that it runs over Centre St, rather than over the old station. 3) Run the whole thing underground.

The underground idea brings me to my next suggestion for the station: Put the daily parking underground. This would free up the above-ground levels of the new station for other purposes, whatever they may be.

Then, after the old station is razed down, build some mixed-use development on top of the now-empty lot.

So, what do you guys think of my crazy idea for the Quincy Adams MBTA.
 
It's cool to see something like this get a bit of press but why on earth does the map they included have the Blue and Green connecting at Hynes and not Kenmore?

I hope that's a product of bad photoshopping and not of the students' plan in question.

Screen-Shot-2014-07-09-at-5.26.19-PM.png
 

The full Blue-eats-D scheme isn't as vital as just Red-Blue connector at MGH, but I have always thought fondly of the whole shebang. Their plan only includes a single infill station which is good. They might even skip the Dartmouth station (NIMBY pacification) as long as they leave provisions to complete it in the future. Obviously Storrow boulevardization is key to the whole thing which drags pike improvements into it as well. Although maybe not, maybe they have a scheme to actually get it done for $3BB without redesigning the entire transportation network of the region.

Good luck to them. At least they are talking about it.
 
Pity my ass, where do you think I learned Photoshop and Illustraitor? AT WENTWORTH!
 
Oh have pity. They're clearly in such dire straits that they had to photograph their monitor... :p

I have a feeling that's BostInno taking pictures of their presentation slide(s). The presentation likely had a clear, downright stolen image, especially if they shopped out the copyright.
 
I have a feeling that's BostInno taking pictures of their presentation slide(s). The presentation likely had a clear, downright stolen image, especially if they shopped out the copyright.

Yeah, I know, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to be negligently glib.
 
why on earth does the map they included have the Blue and Green connecting at Hynes and not Kenmore?

Some guesses on why not Kenmore:
1) Using the center ROWs and a cross-platform transfer at Kenmore wasn't viable (too hard to get in and get out while "crossing")
2) Everything you can connect to at Kenmore you can connect to at Hynes

Some guesses on why Hynes-Yawkey-Riverway
1) Hynes probably has more proven demand than Kenmore
2) It looks like they're routing it under Boylston St
3) I suspect "Yawkey" is actually Boylston@Yawkey
-or- they went for a CR connection over saving 1 stop for B/C riders
 
Some guesses on why not Kenmore:
1) Using the center ROWs and a cross-platform transfer at Kenmore wasn't viable (too hard to get in and get out while "crossing")

Some guesses on why Hynes-Yawkey-Riverway
1) Hynes probably has more proven demand than Kenmore
2) It looks like they're routing it under Boyleston St
3) I suspect "Yawkey" is actually Boyleston@Yawkey
-or- they went for a CR connection over saving 1 stop for B/C riders

It's also possible that the stop spacing between Kenmore and "Yawkey" would have been too tight, particularly for HRT...
 
I would much rather that the Blue Line go to Kenmore and not Yawkey than the opposite.

Why? Yawkey serves Kenmore Square fine, and would allow for Blue/DMU transfers in addition to Blue/Green. It picks up Hines and the Prudential Center for the Blue Line as well.

The logistics... I don't know. But from a a service perspective it actually seems better.
 
Why? Yawkey serves Kenmore Square fine, and would allow for Blue/DMU transfers in addition to Blue/Green. It picks up Hines and the Prudential Center for the Blue Line as well.

The logistics... I don't know. But from a a service perspective it actually seems better.

I agree. They got their Blue/Green connection, but chose Hynes over Kenmore because, when you include Prudential, it is the much bigger demand generator that you might as well serve directly.

Then they chose to serve Kenmore from the "side" that's really getting built up: Boylston@Yawkey. This is probably smoother at ballgame time too to have a whole station in the "other direction"

I like it. Frankly, I'd delete the Riverway stop and just make sure to put two entrances on "Yawkey" (a "Landmark" and a "Yawkey Way")
 
Because you have an in station transfer for Blue->Green and Green->Blue. It's simpler and cheaper for people who use the system.

DMUs and Commuter Rail are going to have a different payment scheme so jumping out of Kenmore and paying to get to the purple and indigo trains is less of a problem.

edit: Okay I had a brain fart and forgot that they connected at Hynes, but I do prefer Kenmore to Hynes mostly because of its proximity to Fenway Park and I think having a rapid transit line go directly to the park helps congestion on the Green Line, as opposed to everyone taking it to Hynes and then hopping on the Green Line anyways.

Also I'm not sure how the Blue Line would get from Hynes->Yawkey->Fenway in a cost efficient manner and Yawkey and Fenway would be pretty close to one another.
 
Because you have an in station transfer for Blue->Green and Green->Blue. It's simpler and cheaper for people who use the system.

DMUs and Commuter Rail are going to have a different payment scheme so jumping out of Kenmore and paying to get to the purple and indigo trains is less of a problem.

Blue/Green would probably still happen in-station, just not at Kenmore. People at Kenmore could still get on either line.

FWIW, getting from the river to Hines is practically impossible from an engineering standpoint. It would require tunneling Mass. Ave, which is probably where a big chunk of the $3.3 billion comes from. Really not worth it.
 
And they are getting from the esplanade to Hynes, and from Hynes to the D how?

Unless they propose deep-boring beneath the back bay (probably impossible for umpteen reasons), the only way to do it is make a tight 90° turn onto Mass Ave, dig it up, build a super deep station under Mass Ave (has to be underneath the Comm Ave underpass and green line), then make an even tighter 70something° turn onto the Mass Pike/Newbury St/Worcester Line, and go even deeper to get under the Muddy. Then they propose building a station somewhere at yawkey (beneeth the pike?, the existing CR station?) before merging with the existing D.

What.The.Fuck

If riverbank and blue-eats-D is ever going to happen, routing it down the Charlesgate is the ONLY way that makes sense. You still have to build a new station beneath Kenmore because only the inside tracks were designed for heavy rail conversion (and they only feed the B line) and the outside tracks have to be retained as light rail for the C. But that's much less an issue than this insane routing to get to Hynes for no discernible reason other than a connection to the 1.


Some other issues with converting the D to heavy rail:
1) On paper, the grade-separated isolated ROW looks prime for conversion. But it's only grade-separated from roadways. Almost every single D station has HEAVILY utilized at-grade pedestrian crossings that would need to be accommodated. Brookline Village and Eliot are prime examples of this, but almost every station has a pedestrian crossing that gets used for more than just boarding trains. There's also the crossing out by Hammond Pond.

2) Every single station would need to be rebuilt from the ground up. No at-grade crossing of a heavy-rail line means ADA accessible platforms with two elevators minimum. Most of the stations would have to be moved slightly or closed. I have no idea what you'd do with Brookline Village, it would probably have to be buried.

3) Riverside. You're cutting off the main LRV storage and maintenance facility. Sure the blue line uses overhead catenary (the only pro of this idea, you don't have to swap out the power systems) so the LRVs could still access it... outside of service hours. Since the LRVs are wobbly at speed they couldn't co-mingle with the BL fleet without killing their trip times.

4) Reservoir. Not that the T takes advantage of this, but you eliminate the possibility of routing BC trains down the D branch in case of service inturruptions.

5) No D-E connector, and all of the potential benefits that would bring to the system.

6) Service capacity. Does the D even need the capacity of six car heavy rail trains? Newton is just not that dense, and even at rush the trains aren't that full (relatively), and when they are its typically because of delays and not train capacity. Newton's not going to get much denser, so where is the ridership to justify rebuilding every single station, a new GL storage yard/maintenance facility, an expanded BL fleet, and the new tunnel beneath Storrow? This is always my biggest question with a heavy-rail D. Will it ever need more than four car LRV trains? I doubt it.

7) Needham. You just eliminated and/or made replacing CR service to Needham virtually impossible, and at minimum vastly more expensive. There are several crossings that would need to be grade separated, turning the project from a "lay a second track and wires" to "completely rebuild the entire ROW".


This is why I tend to get apprehensive (and a bit upset) when these student ideas, the product of at most 2-3 months of study (because unless it's a thesis its probably only a half-semester project) get a ton of attention in the press when ideas that have been being hashed out for years by people on forums, etc, are ignored. Van's ideas have been out there for ever, and have inspired multiple iterations (several on here) that are vastly superior to this swiss-cheese proposal. And yet the only credit he got was the un-credited thievery of a graphic.


All of the issues of the D getting crowded in the central subway are solved with the D-E connector, and either some version of F-Lines idea to go from Back Bay to the abandoned Pleasant St portal or the Stuart Street subway, which has been proposed for ages. It's probably a lot cheaper than this idea as well. If the riverbank is ever built as an express bypass, it makes a million more sense to send rapid transit capacity where its needed: Allston, Watertown, and eventually Waltham.
 
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